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Featured Biblical textual variants.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Jun 5, 2023.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  2. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    Excellent.

    "no major doctrines depend on any meaningful and viable variants. "
     
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  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    While no primary or essentual to salvation teachings are directly affected, a number of deemed secondary teaches are. And not everyone agrees.

    John 6:47, ". . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. . . ."

    Versus,

    John 6:47-48, ". . . Verily, verily, I say to you, He that believes on me has life eternal. I am the bread of life. . . ."
    That translator proveded the ". . . on me . . . " in the italics.
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Mark 13:31, ". . . The heaven and the earth will pass away, but my words will certainly not pass away. . . ." Willbur N. Pickering Translation.

    His translation note, "Jesus affirms that His words have eternal validity."

    And in a video on two possible F35 readings either singlar or plural for "pass away." Neither changes the English tranlation of this verse.

    F35 παρελευσεται or παρελευσεται
    For that matter neither does the TR, OC or NU, they use παρελευσεται (re: heaven and earth).
     
    #4 37818, Jun 5, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2023
  5. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Not bad, but I found a very misleading statement early in the essay. He said, "Do you feel the weight of this challenge? You should. No other document from the ancient world has this many textual variants."

    Well, duh! No other document from Greek history has anywhere near the number of ancient manuscripts. So in this respect, the number of variants in the NT mss tradition is quite natural and expected. For example, here is a page telling about the mss of ancient blind Greek poet Homer's works: a total of only about 1000, including all of his works, with virtually none being as oldest as the oldest mss of the Greek NT: Homer Before Print - Homer in Print - The University of Chicago Library.
     
    #6 John of Japan, Jul 3, 2023
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  7. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    It's like we saw 2 different video's? About the Pericope The Woman caught in adultery?
     
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well, I haven't seen the video yet. I was actually responding to the essay in the OP.

    As for the PA, I'm on the side of Dr. Robinson, and believe it was in the original mss.
     
    #8 John of Japan, Jul 3, 2023
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  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    There is very much a common agreement among the TR/MT and CT, and the differences between them are not related at all to altering any essential doctrine of the Christian faith.
     
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  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Years ago I got to wondering about this type of statement, which others have said or written also. I did my own research and confirmed it. More than that, I started thinking about other things not affected by the variants, in particular the names of Christ. I learned that every single name Christ is called in the Scriptures exists in any text type or mss: Alexandrian, Byzantine, Western.

    Here's an example. The name "Alpha and Omega" occurs four times in the TR, all in the same book: Revelation 1:8, 1:11, 21:6, 22:13. One of those times, 1:11, it does not occur in the Byzantine or Alexandrian (thus omitted in the ESV, NIV, etc., but not in the NKJV and similar translations). My point is that God has preserved that one name of Jesus, though many manuscripts omits it in one place. So, God's preservation of Scripture is proven once again.
     
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    All truths of God word are essential. Luke 4:4.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The difference between Dr. Robinson and Dr. Pickering.

    "
    7:53 επορευθη ] απηλθεν

    8:2 ηρχετο ] + προς αυτον

    8:3 εν μοιχεια ] επι μοιχεια

    καταληφθεισαν ] κατειλημμενην

    8:4 αυτω πειραζοντες ] αυτω

    αυτη η γυνη κατεληφθη ] ταυτην ευρομεν

    8:4 αυτοφορω ] αυτοφωρω

    μοιχευομενη ] μοιχευομενην

    8:5 μωσης ημιν ] ημων μωσης

    8:6 κατηγορειν ] κατηγοριαν κατ

    8:7 πρωτον ] πρωτος

    επ αυτην τον λιθον ] τον λιθον επ αυτη

    8:9 πρεσβυτερων ] + εως των εσχατων

    8:11 ο ιησους ] αυτη ο ιησους

    κρινω ] κατακρινω

    μηκετι ] απο του νυν μηκετι "
     
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  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    From the article, we can assume that one of the main goals of Satan in CHANGING the underlying texts for the use in translating Manuel's for his use, called 'versions' was to elicit a general complaint of, “The Bible has been changed so many times over the last 2000 years, it’s impossible to know what it originally said.”

    This general sentiment is articulated oh so woefully by dozens of 'literary' types that claim some knowledge of the recent translations.

    Aside from needing to know, whether we admit it or not, the underlying original text documents were CHANGED, we need to understand and appreciate that the initial purpose and handling of the Modern Versions, based on those changed original text documents was to treat them as if "The Bible is just any ordinary book".

    That is my explanation to someone bringing up about 'variations'.

    The Modern 'Versions' of the so-called Bible were never intended to treat their translations any different than any ordinary book.

    Do you want to know something?

    God did not initiate the process of the Modern Translations, for them to be treated as any ordinary book.

    Much less, did God initiate the compiling and limitations of the worst, most tampered with, spurious and flesh-filled worldly texts that had been kept, although ignored, in the Underground Occult, for hundreds of years.

    Then, if you wonder whether the resurfacing of the Underground Occult text documents, with thousands of variants within the Gospels alone, were "Commissioned by the Creator God of the Universe" to be primarily translated by some of the foremost advocates of the Occult, with the two of them originating the inauguration and founding their very own Secret Societies dedicated to the 'investigation' and, therefore, practice of the paranormal...? The answer is, "no".

    On and on. We're the committees, revisionists, and publishers all saved, devout, Christians with the intent to relate what the Author of the Bible actually said into other languages? If they did, they started with one more corrupt mess to work with, so for them, as with us, the idea of employing an Occultist procedure and materials to result in a product of God, is irrational.

    I dismiss them out of hand for what that actually are and that is that they had no intention of being what they presume to be.

    The intention for them was to be versions that were translated as if they are any other book and if the truth be known, to be various sources of confusion to act as a bridge between Apostate Christianity and the Occult.

    Except for the NKJV which was intended to be a bridge between God's Word as He Promised to Preserve and Apostate Versions.

    This is copied from: A few of my KJV mark ups.

    "Some examples of the importance of not using an unreliable text and an unsound translation approach are here: (not to mention less than desirable translators):

    "From: 448 Reasons We Cannot Trust Any Modern Bible Version!

    "These are 448 egregious omissions in the modern versions.

    "Did they/ do they have it out for The Lord?

    "They remove the Trinity in I John 5:7, the only three occurrences of the "GODHEAD", the Name Jesus Christ, over and over, 'Lord', 'God', 'the blood', that Jesus was 'the only begotten son', etc., etc.

    "What could go wrong?

    "What will they delete next time?

    "We better be glad we even have a copy of God's Word!"


    And before we get too upset, ask yourself why certain postings here on the BB seem to always omit these words, too (??). "GODHEAD", the Name Jesus Christ, over and over, 'Lord', 'God', 'the blood', that Jesus was 'the only begotten son', etc., etc., The Holy Spirit (or, at least, don't include them).

    Are they out of vogue to use? ”holy”, ” forever”, ”begotten”, ”sanctified”, ”I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:", etc., etc. (??)

    Matthew: Don't cut the baby (DCTB) vs Cut the baby (CTB).

    Mark, Luke, John: Don't cut the baby (DCTB) vs Cut the baby (CTB).

    Acts - Galatians: Don't cut the baby (DCTB) vs Cut the baby (CTB).


    Ephesians - Revelation: Don't cut the baby (DCTB) vs Cut the baby (CTB).
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Big long rant. A lot of work to post. If this is a bunch of KJV onlyism you are unable separate truth from error. Which more of a hinderence than a help.
     
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  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, Piper, these links show some of the hundreds of places there are variation by commission and alteration and the reasons they effect doctrines.

    Bible Doctrines Affected by Modern Versions (1/2)

    That is slightly different than the quote you posted, but I had our teachers in college all start their classes with that quote or similar and the pronouncement that "the KJV is not inspired, one semester. Within a few more semesters, many of them were dead, fired for no reason, or too sick to teach and the College went bankrupt and was resolved. They also lost their home church building and facilities of 200+ years.

    I'm not KJVOnly and if the article people are that I posted, I don't care as long as they have good information.

    The Ruckmanite-type KJVOnly are just overenthusiastic and gone to seed on indefensible positions, while using any form of sufficiently reliable manuscript evidence is preferable, opposed to knowingly corrupt documents.

    That is just common sense.

    From my perspective on my school white-washing the new versions and dismissing the KJV, was and is that "what use does God have for them, if they are presenting garbage as the Word of God and not that which has been preserved, COMPLETE"?

    Don't our Confessions and Statements of Faith have to do with the Word of God being sufficient? Then, what use do we have or does God have of the obviously insufficient?

    I know I would be offended if they left I John 5:7 out of MY BIBLE, if I were God, much less the hundreds of other instances of Divine Truth butchered, adulterated, and abandoned.
     
  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Nope.
     
  17. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    Yes you are. That's why you parrot their false witness.

    The extra words of the Johannine Comma were added to the Bible, not deleted. Those extra words were not in the Greek Manuscripts, they were all added from Latin.
    Erasmus was smart enough to know they didn't belong and the extra words were not found in his first 2 editions of the Textus Receptus. But English Roman Catholic Church leaders made an outcry and falesly accused him of heresy. Back then he could have been burnt at the stake if found guilty so he gave in and added the words. God doesn't want extra words from the Roman Catholic Latin Vulgate sneaking into our Bibles. Put a mark through the extra words and read the verses as God intended.
     
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  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I am pro KJV. Anti it's onlyism. I am persuaded Greek text Family 35 is largely, of not completely, the original text to our New Testament autographs. Understand the definition for the original New Testament text is to be Family 35.
     
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  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Still promoting the myth of the KJVO?
     
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Critical Greek text best textual source available today
     
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