Blood Guilt

[Yeshua1]

So Yesh, how sure are you that the present state of Israel is the "final form"?

So sure that you believe we as Christians should abandon all discernment of right and wrong and support/condone everything they do or have done?

israel of right now still awaights the final fulfillment of Ezeckiel. as they must be spiritually right with God again, and that will happen at Yeshua second coming!

But that does not mean that they should not be held accountibility for anything they have done wrong/immorally, just so much less they have done wrong then the Muslim nations have though!

 

[The Biblicist]

So Bib, how sure are you that the present state of Israel is the "final form"?

So sure that you believe we as Christians should abandon all discernment of right and wrong and support/condone everything they do or have done?

The nation of Israel is "elect" in the very same sense as an individual elect. There is the past period of the unregenerate state up until the point of salvation. Israel as a nation has been unregenerate as a whole and will remain such until the appointed time of salvation occurs (Rom. 11:25-28). We no more support/condone YOU as an unregenerate elect before regeneration than we do them.

 

[kyredneck]

So Bib, how sure are you that the present state of Israel is the "final form"?

So sure that you believe we as Christians should abandon all discernment of right and wrong and support/condone everything they do or have done?

The nation of Israel is "elect" in the very same sense as an individual elect. There is the past period of the unregenerate state up until the point of salvation. Israel as a nation has been unregenerate as a whole and will remain such until the appointed time of salvation occurs (Rom. 11:25-28). We no more support/condone YOU as an unregenerate elect before regeneration than we do them.

So Yesh, how sure are you that the present state of Israel is the "final form"?

So sure that you believe we as Christians should abandon all discernment of right and wrong and support/condone everything they do or have done?

israel of right now still awaights the final fulfillment of Ezeckiel. as they must be spiritually right with God again, and that will happen at Yeshua second coming!

But that does not mean that they should not be held accountibility for anything they have done wrong/immorally, just so much less they have done wrong then the Muslim nations have though!

Is criticism of Israel 'antisemtic'?

 

[The Biblicist]

Is criticism of Israel 'antisemtic'?

God criticized Israel for many things. Criticism is one thing, repudiating they are the elect nation is quite another thing. God never denied their election.

 

[Yeshua1]

Is criticism of Israel 'antisemtic'?

No, but you seem to have them being totally rejected by God as His future peoples, and that they have no more right to exist in the land then any other nation!

Also, you seem to gloss over that they have been attacked and treated much more harshly by the islamic nations then they have done unto them!

 

[RLBosley]

I don't see this thread ending well...

 

[kyredneck]

No, but you seem to have them being totally rejected by God as His future peoples, and that they have no more right to exist in the land then any other nation!

What I totally reject is your unbiblical theopolitical system of beliefs that's built upon sheer speculation and sensationalism.

Also, you seem to gloss over that they have been attacked and treated much more harshly by the islamic nations then they have done unto them!

I reiterate, you need to educate yourself with the facts. Seventy nine 'Israeli Violations of U.N. Security Council Resolutions' spanning over 1948-2009, sixty one years. Are all these founded solely on hate and anti-Semitism? Am I hateful and anti-Semitic for bringing these things to light?

 

[kyredneck]

God criticized Israel for many things. Criticism is one thing, repudiating they are the elect nation is quite another thing. God never denied their election.

So what I perceive is that in reality you actually do believe that this present political state is the elect nation of Israel, and anyone who disagrees with that is anti-Semitic?

“Dr. Paige Patterson, president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and a dispensational premillennialist:

The present state of Israel is not the final form. The present state of Israel will be lost, eventually, and Israel will be run out of the land again, only to return when they accept the Messiah as Savior.”

What about this guy? He disagrees with you, do you consider him to be hateful?

 

[Yeshua1]

What I totally reject is your unbiblical theopolitical system of beliefs that's built upon sheer speculation and sensationalism.



I reiterate, you need to educate yourself with the facts. Seventy nine 'Israeli Violations of U.N. Security Council Resolutions' spanning over 1948-2009, sixty one years. Are all these founded solely on hate and anti-Semitism? Am I hateful and anti-Semitic for bringing these things to light?

Do the jewish peoples have a God granted right to be a nation in that land or not?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Do the jewish peoples have a God granted right to be a nation in that land or not?

They do. But the Covenantalists will never believe that, and will continue to vilify us and spew near-hate for Israel in trying to deny the truth.

 

[kyredneck]

Do the jewish peoples have a God granted right to be a nation in that land or not?

So here we go again with your unbiblical theopolitical system that refuses to take God at His word

43 So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And Jehovah gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

My bible says there are no unfulfilled promises, it's a long done deal from ancient times under the Old Covenant. It also says that under the New Covenant:

For how many soever be the promises of God, in him is the yea: wherefore also through him is the Amen, unto the glory of God through us. 2 Cor 1:20

 

[Yeshua1]

So here we go again with your unbiblical theopolitical system that refuses to take God at His word

43 So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And Jehovah gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

My bible says there are no unfulfilled promises, it's a long done deal from ancient times under the Old Covenant. It also says that under the New Covenant:

For how many soever be the promises of God, in him is the yea: wherefore also through him is the Amen, unto the glory of God through us. 2 Cor 1:20

The Bible also states that when jesus returns, there will be a fountain of blessing open up in jerusalem, and that all israel shall be saved on that day!

 

[Gina B]

And still on topic but not about Israel, the references to bloodguilt absolve executioners of guilt when carrying out capital punishment, and teach us to kill, then shun the carcass of animals that kill.
Interesting.

 

[RLBosley]

Do the jewish peoples have a God granted right to be a nation in that land or not?

No.

So here we go again with your unbiblical theopolitical system that refuses to take God at His word

43 So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And Jehovah gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

My bible says there are no unfulfilled promises, it's a long done deal from ancient times under the Old Covenant. It also says that under the New Covenant:

For how many soever be the promises of God, in him is the yea: wherefore also through him is the Amen, unto the glory of God through us. 2 Cor 1:20

:applause::applause::thumbsup:
Exactly. I remember as a dispensationalist, I would have echoed Yeshua exactly, but actually reading through Joshua helped in the total dismantling of that system.

 

[Yeshua1]

No.




:applause::applause::thumbsup:
Exactly. I remember as a dispensationalist, I would have echoed Yeshua exactly, but actually reading through Joshua helped in the total dismantling of that system.

Except that the Messianic Kingdom state promised to israel when messiah came waits to still be fulfilled at the Second Coming!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

So here we go again with your unbiblical theopolitical system that refuses to take God at His word

43 So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And Jehovah gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56

My bible says there are no unfulfilled promises, it's a long done deal from ancient times under the Old Covenant. It also says that under the New Covenant:

For how many soever be the promises of God, in him is the yea: wherefore also through him is the Amen, unto the glory of God through us. 2 Cor 1:20

All this proves nothing more than God sent Israel into a temporal captivity for disobedience as He warned and promised. In the end He brought them back into the land. At the end of the Old Testament, He says through one of the minor prophets:

Malachi 3, NASB
6 "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed."​

You attempt to redefine God's warnings of temporal punishment and make them an eternal condemnation. They are not.