Born again but not justified?

What is this that I hear that Calvinists just might insist that a regenerate person who has been faithfully obeying God for some time just might not be justified yet?

What do you think about that?

 

Would any Calvinists like to comment on this oddity?

 

Well, I have run across many Calvinists who claim that it is very possible to be born again and be faithfully obeying God for a lengthy period of time and yet that regenerate person is still not justified before God.

What do you think about that Pastor Larry?

 

Well it seems that Abraham was faithfully obeying God well before he was justified at Genesis 15:6 doesn't it?

How did that happen PL? Can a totally depraved human being faithfully obey God without being born again?

Or cannot we believe the Biblical account?

"By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was to go."

How was Abraham able to do this when his will was supposedly in bondage?

 

I wouldn't grant that. I think he was justified in Gen 12 when he got up and went in obedience to God's command. [/b]</font>[/QUOTE]So you disagree with the Biblical account that Abraham was justified at Genesis 15:6?

 

So then justification is NOT a one time event but a process as Catholics also teach? Is that right Pastor Larry?

 

I am curious to see how you will explain this PL,

 

Well PL, you have claimed the Abraham had an "inital justification" at Genesis 12.

And we see clearly Paul explaining to us in Romans 4 that Abraham was justified at a much later time at Genesis 15:6.

So is justification a one-time event or not PL? Please clarify your position.

 

Well Pastor Larry, it seems you need to clear something up here. Since you claim justification is a one time event, and you also claim that Abraham was justified at Genesis 12, what was this justification event at Genesis 15:6 all about?

 

Man you are really going out on a limb here to save yourself PL.

PL: Heb 11:8 agrees with me, that Abraham had faith when he left Ur.

BE: It agrees with me too. In fact, that was my point.

PL: Gen 15:6 is a statement of faith

BE: So nobody was justified at Genesis 15:6 PL? Abraham was simply professing his faith. Is that right PL?

PL: YOU are apparently under the mistaken impression that Gen 15:6 is only related to vv. 1-5.

BE: Really PL? You are going to need to explain yourself on that one.

PL: That is the result of a lack of study on your part. 15:6 is a categoric statement that Abraham was "credited as righteous" because of his belief in God.

BE: Being reckoned as righteous PL IS justification in Calvinism. Do you wish to deny this now?

PL: It is a statement about Abraham's condition before God. (See Ross for starters).

BE: Well you consult Ross and see what he can do for you in this debate with me okay?

Are you actually trying to claim now that Abraham was not justified at Genesis 15:6 but had been justified all along since Genesis 12?

 

PL: Listen closely and quit messing this up. Gen 15:6 is a general statement of Abraham being justified by faith. He was not justified at Gen 15:6.

BE: Well that pretty much says it all PL.

I am amazed at the denials that Calvinists will resort to for the sake of their creedal god.

It seems that Paul completely disagrees with you in Romans 4. Will you come right out and say now that Paul did NOT claim Abraham was justified at Genesis 15:6?