BORN AGAIN

[Alex2165]

BORN AGAIN

John 3.3-5
Jesus and Necodemus.
3.Jesus answered him, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the Kingdom of GOD without being born from above.”
4.Nicodemus said to Him, “How can any one be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?”
5.Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the Kingdom of GOD without being born of water and Spirit."

"Born of Water." Born of water means Baptism. It is a ritual that ritually cleanse a person from everything spiritually unclean. Baptism has long ancient roots in the history of Israel. In the Law of Moses cleansing by water often meant purification of body from uncleanness of diseases and impurities. Priests have to purify themselves in water if they have been defiled physically by something unclean. It was mostly symbolic ritual, but must be taken seriously.

Spiritual side of Baptism also had been introduced in the Law of Moses, but not by water but by blood. Priests on certain occasions, during their ordination for example, have to cleanse and purify themselves by placing blood of sacrifice "on the lobes of their right ears, and on the thumbs of their right hands, and on the big toes of their right feet." The blood of sacrifice also was put on the horns of the Altar in order to sanctified and purified it. All of these are spiritual cleansing by blood.

"Born from above" and "from Spirit." Both mean the same thing, to be born from the Holy Spirit of GOD. As it been mentioned in my previous posts, perfection and certain amount of spiritual growth is required in order to be worthy of receiving the Holy Spirit of GOD. To be more precise it means to have knowledge and understanding of the Bible, to have love for GOD, to have works of faith, be able to do certain sacrifices in life for the sake of the Lord and the people, and even to lay own life for the Christ.

James 1.18
18.In fulfillment of His own purpose He gave us birth by the Word of Truth, so that we would become a kind of first fruits of His creatures.

1John 5.1.4
1.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of GOD, and everyone who loves the Parent loves the Child.

4.Whoever is born of GOD overcomes the world, and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith.

RIGHTEOUSNESS

Possessing of righteousness also required to be born from the Holy Spirit (from above).

1John 2.29
29.If you know that He (Jesus Christ) is Righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

So believing in the ultimate Righteousness of Jesus Christ and to practice His Righteousness in your own life, produces your new Spiritual ReBirth.

LOVE

1John 4.7
7.Beloved, let us love one another, Love is from GOD, and everyone who loves is born of GOD and knows GOD.

1John 5.1-3
1.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of GOD, and everyone who loves the Parent loves the Child.

2.By this we know that we love the children of GOD when we love GOD and observe His commandments.

3.This is love of GOD that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome.

Whoever believes that GOD is ultimate Love, and whoever implementing His Love in their own life, and have true Love particularly for the brothers and sisters in Christ, and proved such Love by the works of faith, such person indeed Spiritually Born of GOD.

FAITH

1John 5.4
4.Whoever is born of GOD overcomes the world, and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our Faith.

Overcomes the world means to overcome all worldly temptations, desires, and sins which are not compatible with the principals and ideals of GOD. It only can be done by a very strong Faith in the Lord and proven by Deeds of Faith. It also means to put all earthly desires and temptations aside, and concentrate only on GOD, on His teachings and Commandments, and follow Him faithfully to the end. So, the strong Faith in GOD proven by godly works (works of faith) is a necessary requirement for achieving the Spiritual Rebirth.

ABOLITION OF SIN

1John 5.18
18.We know that no one who is born of GOD sins, but he who was born of GOD keeps Him, and the evil one does not touch him.

We are all born as sinners, and we sin a lot throughout our entire life. But in this verse John declared that those who are Spiritually Born of GOD do not sin and even the evil one does not touch them. So how we can explain John's passage? Perhaps John meant that no one born of GOD do not sin intentionally. Sins can be generally divided in two basic groups, intentional and not intentional sins. The Law of Moses also provides the same parallel and division of sins in order to conduct a proper judgment and punishment for sins committed.

" but he who was born of GOD keeps Him." This means that one who was born of GOD keeps His Commandments, His Statutes, and His Ordinances, and follows them.

2John 3.9
9.No one who is born of GOD practices sin, because His (GOD'S) seed (Seed - the Word and the Spirit of GOD) abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of GOD.

RESULTS OF THE SPIRITUAL BIRTH

Matthew 10.38-39
38."and whoever does not take up the cross and follow Me, is not worthy of Me.
39.Those who find their life, will lose it, and those who lose their life for My sake, will find it."


Matthew 16.24-26
24.Then Jesus told His disciples, "If any want to become My followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Me.
25.For those who want to save their life, will lose it, and those who lose their life for My sake, will find it.
26.What will it profit them if they gain the whole world, but forfeit their life? Or what will they give in return for their life?"

Matthew 19.21-29
Rich young man and Jesus.
21."Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions and gave the money to the poor (Luke 14.33), and you will have treasure in Heaven, then come, follow Me."

22.When the young man heard this word, he went away grieving, he had many possessions.

23.Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I tell you, it will be hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
24.Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for someone who is rich to enter the Kingdom of GOD."

25.When the disciples heard this they were greatly astounded and said, "Then who can be saved?"

26.But Jesus looked at them and said, "For mortals it is impossible, but for GOD all things are possible."

27.Then Peter said in reply, "Look, we have left everything and followed You. What then will we have?"

28.Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man is seated on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on the twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29.And everyone who has left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or children, or fields, for My name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold, and will inherit eternal life. (Luke 14.26)

Mark 8.34
34.He called the crowd with His disciples and said to them, "If any want to become My followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Me."

Luke 9.23.57-62
23."Then He said to them all, "If any want to become My followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross daily, and follow Me."

57."As they were going along the road, someone said to Him, "I will follow You wherever You go."

58.And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

59.To another He said, "Follow Me." But He said, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father."

60.But Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but as for you, go and proclaim the Kingdom of GOD."

61.Another said, "I will follow You Lord, but let me first say farewell to those at my home."

62.Jesus said to him, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the Kingdom of GOD."

Luke 14.25-27.33
25."Now large crowds were traveling with Him and He turned and said to them,

26."Whoever comes to Me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be My disciple." (Matthew 19.29)

27."Whoever does not carry the cross and follow Me, cannot by My disciple.

33.So therefore, none of you can become My disciples if you do not give up all your possessions." (Matthew 19.21)

To Colossians 3.1-2
2.Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on Earth.

 

[Barry Johnson]

BORN AGAIN

John 3.3-5
Jesus and Necodemus.
3.Jesus answered him, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the Kingdom of GOD without being born from above.”
4.Nicodemus said to Him, “How can any one be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?”
5.Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the Kingdom of GOD without being born of water and Spirit."

"Born of Water." Born of water means Baptism. It is a ritual that ritually cleanse a person from everything spiritually unclean. Baptism has long ancient roots in the history of Israel. In the Law of Moses cleansing by water often meant purification of body from uncleanness of diseases and impurities. Priests have to purify themselves in water if they have been defiled physically by something unclean. It was mostly symbolic ritual, but must be taken seriously.

Spiritual side of Baptism also had been introduced in the Law of Moses, but not by water but by blood. Priests on certain occasions, during their ordination for example, have to cleanse and purify themselves by placing blood of sacrifice "on the lobes of their right ears, and on the thumbs of their right hands, and on the big toes of their right feet." The blood of sacrifice also was put on the horns of the Altar in order to sanctified and purified it. All of these are spiritual cleansing by blood.

"Born from above" and "from Spirit." Both mean the same thing, to be born from the Holy Spirit of GOD. As it been mentioned in my previous posts, perfection and certain amount of spiritual growth is required in order to be worthy of receiving the Holy Spirit of GOD. To be more precise it means to have knowledge and understanding of the Bible, to have love for GOD, to have works of faith, be able to do certain sacrifices in life for the sake of the Lord and the people, and even to lay own life for the Christ.

James 1.18
18.In fulfillment of His own purpose He gave us birth by the Word of Truth, so that we would become a kind of first fruits of His creatures.

1John 5.1.4
1.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of GOD, and everyone who loves the Parent loves the Child.

4.Whoever is born of GOD overcomes the world, and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith.

RIGHTEOUSNESS

Possessing of righteousness also required to be born from the Holy Spirit (from above).

1John 2.29
29.If you know that He (Jesus Christ) is Righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

So believing in the ultimate Righteousness of Jesus Christ and to practice His Righteousness in your own life, produces your new Spiritual ReBirth.

LOVE

1John 4.7
7.Beloved, let us love one another, Love is from GOD, and everyone who loves is born of GOD and knows GOD.

1John 5.1-3
1.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of GOD, and everyone who loves the Parent loves the Child.

2.By this we know that we love the children of GOD when we love GOD and observe His commandments.

3.This is love of GOD that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome.

Whoever believes that GOD is ultimate Love, and whoever implementing His Love in their own life, and have true Love particularly for the brothers and sisters in Christ, and proved such Love by the works of faith, such person indeed Spiritually Born of GOD.

FAITH

1John 5.4
4.Whoever is born of GOD overcomes the world, and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our Faith.

Overcomes the world means to overcome all worldly temptations, desires, and sins which are not compatible with the principals and ideals of GOD. It only can be done by a very strong Faith in the Lord and proven by Deeds of Faith. It also means to put all earthly desires and temptations aside, and concentrate only on GOD, on His teachings and Commandments, and follow Him faithfully to the end. So, the strong Faith in GOD proven by godly works (works of faith) is a necessary requirement for achieving the Spiritual Rebirth.

ABOLITION OF SIN

1John 5.18
18.We know that no one who is born of GOD sins, but he who was born of GOD keeps Him, and the evil one does not touch him.

We are all born as sinners, and we sin a lot throughout our entire life. But in this verse John declared that those who are Spiritually Born of GOD do not sin and even the evil one does not touch them. So how we can explain John's passage? Perhaps John meant that no one born of GOD do not sin intentionally. Sins can be generally divided in two basic groups, intentional and not intentional sins. The Law of Moses also provides the same parallel and division of sins in order to conduct a proper judgment and punishment for sins committed.

" but he who was born of GOD keeps Him." This means that one who was born of GOD keeps His Commandments, His Statutes, and His Ordinances, and follows them.

2John 3.9
9.No one who is born of GOD practices sin, because His (GOD'S) seed (Seed - the Word and the Spirit of GOD) abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of GOD.

RESULTS OF THE SPIRITUAL BIRTH

Matthew 10.38-39
38."and whoever does not take up the cross and follow Me, is not worthy of Me.
39.Those who find their life, will lose it, and those who lose their life for My sake, will find it."


Matthew 16.24-26
24.Then Jesus told His disciples, "If any want to become My followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Me.
25.For those who want to save their life, will lose it, and those who lose their life for My sake, will find it.
26.What will it profit them if they gain the whole world, but forfeit their life? Or what will they give in return for their life?"

Matthew 19.21-29
Rich young man and Jesus.
21."Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions and gave the money to the poor (Luke 14.33), and you will have treasure in Heaven, then come, follow Me."

22.When the young man heard this word, he went away grieving, he had many possessions.

23.Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I tell you, it will be hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
24.Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for someone who is rich to enter the Kingdom of GOD."

25.When the disciples heard this they were greatly astounded and said, "Then who can be saved?"

26.But Jesus looked at them and said, "For mortals it is impossible, but for GOD all things are possible."

27.Then Peter said in reply, "Look, we have left everything and followed You. What then will we have?"

28.Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man is seated on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on the twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29.And everyone who has left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or children, or fields, for My name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold, and will inherit eternal life. (Luke 14.26)

Mark 8.34
34.He called the crowd with His disciples and said to them, "If any want to become My followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Me."

Luke 9.23.57-62
23."Then He said to them all, "If any want to become My followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross daily, and follow Me."

57."As they were going along the road, someone said to Him, "I will follow You wherever You go."

58.And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

59.To another He said, "Follow Me." But He said, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father."

60.But Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but as for you, go and proclaim the Kingdom of GOD."

61.Another said, "I will follow You Lord, but let me first say farewell to those at my home."

62.Jesus said to him, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the Kingdom of GOD."

Luke 14.25-27.33
25."Now large crowds were traveling with Him and He turned and said to them,

26."Whoever comes to Me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be My disciple." (Matthew 19.29)

27."Whoever does not carry the cross and follow Me, cannot by My disciple.

33.So therefore, none of you can become My disciples if you do not give up all your possessions." (Matthew 19.21)

To Colossians 3.1-2
2.Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on Earth.

There is literally too many verses out of context to respond to here .

 

[Barry Johnson]

BORN AGAIN

John 3.3-5
Jesus and Necodemus.
3.Jesus answered him, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the Kingdom of GOD without being born from above.”
4.Nicodemus said to Him, “How can any one be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?”
5.Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the Kingdom of GOD without being born of water and Spirit."

"Born of Water." Born of water means Baptism. It is a ritual that ritually cleanse a person from everything spiritually unclean. Baptism has long ancient roots in the history of Israel. In the Law of Moses cleansing by water often meant purification of body from uncleanness of diseases and impurities. Priests have to purify themselves in water if they have been defiled physically by something unclean. It was mostly symbolic ritual, but must be taken seriously.

Spiritual side of Baptism also had been introduced in the Law of Moses, but not by water but by blood. Priests on certain occasions, during their ordination for example, have to cleanse and purify themselves by placing blood of sacrifice "on the lobes of their right ears, and on the thumbs of their right hands, and on the big toes of their right feet." The blood of sacrifice also was put on the horns of the Altar in order to sanctified and purified it. All of these are spiritual cleansing by blood.

"Born from above" and "from Spirit." Both mean the same thing, to be born from the Holy Spirit of GOD. As it been mentioned in my previous posts, perfection and certain amount of spiritual growth is required in order to be worthy of receiving the Holy Spirit of GOD. To be more precise it means to have knowledge and understanding of the Bible, to have love for GOD, to have works of faith, be able to do certain sacrifices in life for the sake of the Lord and the people, and even to lay own life for the Christ.

James 1.18
18.In fulfillment of His own purpose He gave us birth by the Word of Truth, so that we would become a kind of first fruits of His creatures.

1John 5.1.4
1.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of GOD, and everyone who loves the Parent loves the Child.

4.Whoever is born of GOD overcomes the world, and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith.

RIGHTEOUSNESS

Possessing of righteousness also required to be born from the Holy Spirit (from above).

1John 2.29
29.If you know that He (Jesus Christ) is Righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

So believing in the ultimate Righteousness of Jesus Christ and to practice His Righteousness in your own life, produces your new Spiritual ReBirth.

LOVE

1John 4.7
7.Beloved, let us love one another, Love is from GOD, and everyone who loves is born of GOD and knows GOD.

1John 5.1-3
1.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of GOD, and everyone who loves the Parent loves the Child.

2.By this we know that we love the children of GOD when we love GOD and observe His commandments.

3.This is love of GOD that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome.

Whoever believes that GOD is ultimate Love, and whoever implementing His Love in their own life, and have true Love particularly for the brothers and sisters in Christ, and proved such Love by the works of faith, such person indeed Spiritually Born of GOD.

FAITH

1John 5.4
4.Whoever is born of GOD overcomes the world, and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our Faith.

Overcomes the world means to overcome all worldly temptations, desires, and sins which are not compatible with the principals and ideals of GOD. It only can be done by a very strong Faith in the Lord and proven by Deeds of Faith. It also means to put all earthly desires and temptations aside, and concentrate only on GOD, on His teachings and Commandments, and follow Him faithfully to the end. So, the strong Faith in GOD proven by godly works (works of faith) is a necessary requirement for achieving the Spiritual Rebirth.

ABOLITION OF SIN

1John 5.18
18.We know that no one who is born of GOD sins, but he who was born of GOD keeps Him, and the evil one does not touch him.

We are all born as sinners, and we sin a lot throughout our entire life. But in this verse John declared that those who are Spiritually Born of GOD do not sin and even the evil one does not touch them. So how we can explain John's passage? Perhaps John meant that no one born of GOD do not sin intentionally. Sins can be generally divided in two basic groups, intentional and not intentional sins. The Law of Moses also provides the same parallel and division of sins in order to conduct a proper judgment and punishment for sins committed.

" but he who was born of GOD keeps Him." This means that one who was born of GOD keeps His Commandments, His Statutes, and His Ordinances, and follows them.

2John 3.9
9.No one who is born of GOD practices sin, because His (GOD'S) seed (Seed - the Word and the Spirit of GOD) abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of GOD.

RESULTS OF THE SPIRITUAL BIRTH

Matthew 10.38-39
38."and whoever does not take up the cross and follow Me, is not worthy of Me.
39.Those who find their life, will lose it, and those who lose their life for My sake, will find it."


Matthew 16.24-26
24.Then Jesus told His disciples, "If any want to become My followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Me.
25.For those who want to save their life, will lose it, and those who lose their life for My sake, will find it.
26.What will it profit them if they gain the whole world, but forfeit their life? Or what will they give in return for their life?"

Matthew 19.21-29
Rich young man and Jesus.
21."Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions and gave the money to the poor (Luke 14.33), and you will have treasure in Heaven, then come, follow Me."

22.When the young man heard this word, he went away grieving, he had many possessions.

23.Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I tell you, it will be hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
24.Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for someone who is rich to enter the Kingdom of GOD."

25.When the disciples heard this they were greatly astounded and said, "Then who can be saved?"

26.But Jesus looked at them and said, "For mortals it is impossible, but for GOD all things are possible."

27.Then Peter said in reply, "Look, we have left everything and followed You. What then will we have?"

28.Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man is seated on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on the twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29.And everyone who has left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or children, or fields, for My name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold, and will inherit eternal life. (Luke 14.26)

Mark 8.34
34.He called the crowd with His disciples and said to them, "If any want to become My followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Me."

Luke 9.23.57-62
23."Then He said to them all, "If any want to become My followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross daily, and follow Me."

57."As they were going along the road, someone said to Him, "I will follow You wherever You go."

58.And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

59.To another He said, "Follow Me." But He said, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father."

60.But Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but as for you, go and proclaim the Kingdom of GOD."

61.Another said, "I will follow You Lord, but let me first say farewell to those at my home."

62.Jesus said to him, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the Kingdom of GOD."

Luke 14.25-27.33
25."Now large crowds were traveling with Him and He turned and said to them,

26."Whoever comes to Me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be My disciple." (Matthew 19.29)

27."Whoever does not carry the cross and follow Me, cannot by My disciple.

33.So therefore, none of you can become My disciples if you do not give up all your possessions." (Matthew 19.21)

To Colossians 3.1-2
2.Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on Earth.

Would you agree that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.?

 

[Alex2165]

There is literally too many verses out of context to respond to here .

It is you Barry out of context!

You wrote:
"Would you agree that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.?"

What you mean by that? We are all born of flesh, but the birth from the Holy Spirit come during our life cycle when we accepting Christ as our Savior and follow His Statutes and His Commandments, producing in the process good works of love, mercy, compassion, and charity, all of which shows our faith in Lord's word and in His in His teachings.

Those who not accepted Christ do not possess spirituality but only earthly desires, they remain as living flesh but without spirituality of GOD, and because of it the Holy Spirit of the Lord cannot entered them and give them spiritual rebirth in GOD.

Do you disagree with me (and as it became accustom for you) that the result of the birth from above will produce good godly deeds, love, compassion, mercy, understanding, and rejection of temptations and sins?

The verses I presented you called them to be out of context, then please introduce you context of the birth from above, I would like to see it.

If you do not understand the verses of the Bible, it does not mean they are out of context.

 

[mailmandan]

BORN AGAIN

John 3.3-5
Jesus and Necodemus.
3.Jesus answered him, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the Kingdom of GOD without being born from above.”
4.Nicodemus said to Him, “How can any one be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?”
5.Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the Kingdom of GOD without being born of water and Spirit."

"Born of Water." Born of water means Baptism...

Right out of the starting gate your premise is flawed. In regards to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (verse 4) and with "flesh" (verse 6). Simply stated in that case, Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom of God two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (accompanied by amniotic water) and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, Divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23), but the Holy Spirit is the Agent who accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.

 

[Alex2165]

To Mailman.

It is good you already found flaws in my post, I respect all opinions no matter how far fetch they may be.

You wrote:
" Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom of God two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (accompanied by amniotic water) and the second is Spirit.."

Just think what you wrote in the first part of your post:

Jesus told Nicodemus that two births are necessary, PHYSICAL and spiritual. Really? Jesus told already fully mature man Nicodemus that he needs a PHYSICAL birth first, while Nicodemus sitting just right in front of Him, already born some 40 or 50 years ago, and he had no clue that in order to receive the Holy Spirit he must be first physically born!

And what Nicodemus answered Jesus? "Shall I go back to my mother's womb?" That would be appropriate answer if Jesus really meant that.

Does it make any sense to you? Is it a great mystery to know that you have to be born first in order to receive a Holy Spirit later? Or may be where is another way to receive the Holy Spirit?

In the second part you wrote:

"out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.."

Yes, of course, we can fantasizing and glue very remote themes and subject to almost anything we want Mailman, and speculate endlessly attaching one meaning to another.

Read this part of the verse carefully:

"John 3.5
5."Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the Kingdom of GOD without being born of water and Spirit."

"Of WATER and SPIRIT." See, the word "WATER" comes together with the word "SPIRIT." Anything comes so close, together with the word "SPIRIT" must have certain significance and closely relate to one another, this is why this two words are put together in the same sentence of this verse.

So, what kind of word or object can be so close relate to "HOLY SPIRIT"? Can be waters of womb during the birth can relate to HOLY SPIRIT?

Or living water that actually comes from the HOLY SIPIRIT? If this is the answer, is it means that person would be born again from WATER that comes from the HOLY SPIRIT which he or she already possessing? If a person possessing the Holy Spirit he must be already born again, why he needs water that comes from Holy Spirit?

It is written, "from WATER" and then "from HOLY SPIRIT" so here two entities involved one after another. So your theory seems does fit right to the context and meaning of this verse.

But Baptism by WATER fits very well. Because in order to receive a Holy Spirit, (for some people, not for all, certain people received Holy Spirit without Baptism) a person must be ritualistically spiritually clean by confessing his/her sins in the water. But for Jesus it was not necessary, He just fulfill the Law.

What happen to Jesus before HOLY SPIRIT descended on Him, He was Baptized by John the Baptist in the WATER.

Matthew 3.11.16-17
11."As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He Who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

So, you have to be Baptized first with WATER, then with HOLY SPIRIT, and then with FIRE (means tribulations of all sorts).

16."And after being baptized Jesus went up immediately from the water and the Heavens were opened, and he (John the Baptist - Russian) saw the Spirit of GOD descending as a dove and coming upon Him (Matthew 3.16) (Mark 1.10) (Luke 3.22) (John 1.33),

17.and a voice out of the Heavens saying, "This is My beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased."

Matthew 21.25-26
25."The baptism of John was from what source, from Heaven or from men?" And they began reasoning among themselves saying, "If we say 'From Heaven', He will say to us, 'Then why did you not believe him?'

26.But if we say, 'From men', we fear the multitude, they all hold John to be a prophet."

Mailman, can you answer this question, "The baptism of John was from what source, from Heaven or from men?"

Matthew 28.19
19."Go therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,."

Mark 1.8
8."I baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Jesus Christ many times mentioned Baptism, but sometimes under different context and meaning, mostly as TEST of all sorts like harms, troubles, and persecutions.

Acts 2.38.41
38.And Peter (see: Apostles of Christ) said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

41.So then those who had received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Sometimes it goes in opposite way, but Baptism always connected to the Holy Spirit in any direction.

Acts 10. 47-48
Apostle Peter at Cornelius house.
47."Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

48.And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Acts 19.4-5
4.And Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him Who was coming after him, that is in Jesus."

5.And when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (literally means in the name of the Holy Spirit).

1Corinthians 12.13
13."By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink (means to receive) of one Spirit."

Galatians 3.26-29
27.All of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (with the Holy Spirit).

Leviticus 14.9
9. "Bath his body in the water." This was not simply to cleanse oneself. It symbolizes rebirth and re-creation - just as an infant is born out of water, just like a convert emerges out of water to a new life and a new identity, just as the world was created out of water (Genesis 1.2). The experience of illness and recovery has made the leper a new person - that is someone who now looks at life differently (Seifer Ha-Hinnukh).

Etz Hayim. Torah and Commentary.

~ Washing body with water: (Exodus 29.4, 30.18-21, 40.12) (Leviticus 8.6, 14.8-9, 15.5-8.10-11.13.18.21-22.27, 16.4.24.26.28, 17.16, 22.6) (Numbers 8.7.21, 19.7-8.10.12.19.21, 31.23-24) (Deuteronomy 23.11)

See Mailman, I took my time and presented to you some evidence and facts that cannot be ignored.

Do you notice something in all these verses, that word "BAPTISM" always goes along with the word, "HOLY SPIRIT!"

The third part of your post I do not want even to touch, because it has no relation to this theme.