BUY your way into Heaven! PLEASE!

[Claudia_T]

Great! So you believe that when a person places their faith in Christ at that moment till the judgment seat they are secure in Christ and there will be absolutely no question of whether they will be eternally with Him. They will be judged on Christs suffient work ALONE and nothing else to deterning their eternal destiny with Him.

I dont believe in Once Saved Always Saved, it isnt what the Bible teaches

"The judgment was set, and the books were opened." The revelator, describing the same scene, adds: "Another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12.
"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Says the Saviour: "By thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Ecclesiastes 12:14; Matthew 12:36, 37. The secret purposes and motives appear in the unerring register; for God "will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts." 1 Corinthians 4:5. "Behold, it is written before Me, . . . your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord." Isaiah 65:6, 7.
"Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment." Ecclesiastes 12:13, 14. The apostle James admonishes his brethren: "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:12
"They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, . . . are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." Luke 20:35, 36. And again He declares that "they that have done good" shall come forth "unto the resurrection of life." John 5:29. The righteous dead will not be raised until after the judgment at which they are accounted worthy of "the resurrection of life."
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels."

 

[BobRyan]

The thing is -- the scriptures don't get deleted when Shiloh complains that he is not willing to read them --

Isaiah 55
1 ""Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.
2 ""Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, And delight yourself in abundance.
3 "" Incline your ear and come to Me. Listen, that you may live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you, According to the faithful mercies shown to David.


Admittedly this is from the "ALL Scripture" mentioned in 2Tim 3:16 -- but scripture still.

Claudia's "it takes everything to serve the Lord" is found in

Matt 10
37 "" He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.[/b]
38 ""And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me[/b].
39 "" He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

 

[BobRyan]

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; 1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Don't want to give you to much, don't want you to choke.

Not to worry - because I don't whine when those texts are posted as you do when we quote Matt 10 and Isaiah 55.

Details details...

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Shiloh]

I note Sister Claudia_T is a SDA Christian. by Mr. Ed

This is what I have been saying all along. I agree she/he or what ever, is a SDA "christian.'

1. The devil will ultimately have sin placed on him and be "cast" out for redemption to be complete.

2. There is no eternal hell or Lake of Fire.

3. They keep the sabbath day as she calls it Sabbath Sunday or Saturday/Sunday? Confusing I know but that's the SDA.

4. There is NO Eternal Security.

There Mr. Ed is your SDA "christian."

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Claudia_T]

I note Sister Claudia_T is a SDA Christian. by Mr. Ed

This is what I have been saying all along. I agree she/he or what ever, is a SDA "christian.'

1. The devil will ultimately have sin placed on him and be "cast" out for redemption to be complete.

2. There is no eternal hell or Lake of Fire.

3. They keep the sabbath day as she calls it Sabbath Sunday or Saturday/Sunday? Confusing I know but that's the SDA.

4. There is NO Eternal Security.

There Mr. Ed is your SDA "christian."

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You are one really confused person, thats for sure. Starting with you cant even figure out if someone named Claudia is a She or a He.

 

[Claudia_T]

The thing is -- the scriptures don't get deleted when Shiloh complains that he is not willing to read them --

Isaiah 55
1 ""Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.
2 ""Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, And delight yourself in abundance.
3 "" Incline your ear and come to Me. Listen, that you may live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you, According to the faithful mercies shown to David.


Admittedly this is from the "ALL Scripture" mentioned in 2Tim 3:16 -- but scripture still.

Claudia's "it takes everything to serve the Lord" is found in

Matt 10
37 "" He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.[/b]
38 ""And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me[/b].
39 "" He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

Hey Bob,

Look what I found, in the Ten Virgin story...

The Ten Virgins BUY Oil (the Holy Spirit)

Matthew 25:
1: Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2: And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3: They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5: While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6: And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7: Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8: And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9: But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10: And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11: Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12: But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.


I thought it was interesting because the "eyesalve" in REvelation 3 is the Holy Spirit as well and it says to BUY it too. Like the Ten Virgins BUY their Oil (Holy Spirit), also they have to BUY the white raiment as well! This gets pretty interesting when you start looking into it!

Rv:3:18: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

 

[Claudia_T]

Okay God is showing me things now... when you compare Revelation 3:18 where it says "buy of me the white raiment" with ZEchariah 3:4 where Satan is there accusing Joshua and God's people of sin and the filthy garments are TAKEN AWAY from Joshua BEFORE he gets the change of raiment.

Well you see? thats BUYING the white raiment again. well how do you BUY it? always by GIVING UP something... in this case you have to GIVE UP the filthy garments of SIN... God takes that... just as I said before at the start of this thing... giving God our filthy heart to purify and make holy. THEN He replaces that with the pure white raiment of Christ's righteousness! You give God what is His! He bought you with a price and He has then the right to take the filthy garment from you.. it is HIS... your sins are to be given to God... and He gives you HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS in return!


Zech:3:4: And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.



Rv:3:18: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

 

[Claudia_T]

I cant help myself... okay, the Holy Spirit is the Oil and you have to BUY it.

well the Bible says the Holy Spirit comes to CONVICT the world of SIN and of RIGHTEOUSNESS and of the Judgment to come.


So its that EYESALVE... it shows you the sin....

and look! it is also faithfully represented as FREE!

Ti:3:5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

IM amazed... it always seems to have to do with sin and taking that away.. and buying and being free at the same time..

well see you have to GIVE the Holy Spirit yourself, your heart, your sins... so that it can wash you clean... like that filthy garment the angel takes away from Joshua!

 

[J. Jump]

I dont believe in Once Saved Always Saved, it isnt what the Bible teaches

Claudia this just simply isn't a true statement. Well the first part probably is , but not the second part following the comma.

The Bible clearly teaches that once a person has placed their faith in the substitionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God they are saved from that moment and forever.

Despite there being so much more evidence one only needs to look at one Scripture to know that isn't a true statement. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that for by grace you have been saved through faith. The structure of the Greek tells us that this was a one time event that was "completed" in the past and the results of which remain throughout time without end.

Eternal (spiritual) salvation is not a process. The Bible clearly teaches that it is a one-time event.

How is it that you are not seeing what Ephesians 2:8-9 alone tell us? My heart just aches for you when I read your posts. You start questioning things, and rightly so, but then you always come back with statements that you mind is already made up.

I am truly sadden. As long as you see salvation as a process things are not going to fit in Scripture for you.

 

[Shiloh]

Originally Posted by Shiloh
I note Sister Claudia_T is a SDA Christian. by Mr. Ed

This is what I have been saying all along. I agree she/he or what ever, is a SDA "christian.'

1. The devil will ultimately have sin placed on him and be "cast" out for redemption to be complete.

2. There is no eternal hell or Lake of Fire.

3. They keep the sabbath day as she calls it Sabbath Sunday or Saturday/Sunday? Confusing I know but that's the SDA.

4. There is NO Eternal Security.

There Mr. Ed is your SDA "christian."

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


You are one really confused person, thats for sure. Starting with you cant even figure out if someone named Claudia is a She or a He. by "Claudia"

Well, lets take a look at this.......
1. You are WRONG about sin being placed on the devil.
2. You are WRONG about the Lake of Fire.
3. You are WRONG about the Sabbath day.
4. You are WRONG about Eternal Security.
5. Why would you be right about your name?

__________________

 

[Allan]

Originally Posted by Allan
Great! So you believe that when a person places their faith in Christ at that moment till the judgment seat they are secure in Christ and there will be absolutely no question of whether they will be eternally with Him. They will be judged on Christs suffient work ALONE and nothing else to deterning their eternal destiny with Him.

I dont believe in Once Saved Always Saved, it isnt what the Bible teaches

"The judgment was set, and the books were opened." The revelator, describing the same scene, adds: "Another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12.
"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Says the Saviour: "By thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Ecclesiastes 12:14; Matthew 12:36, 37. The secret purposes and motives appear in the unerring register; for God "will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts." 1 Corinthians 4:5. "Behold, it is written before Me, . . . your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord." Isaiah 65:6, 7.
"Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment." Ecclesiastes 12:13, 14. The apostle James admonishes his brethren: "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:12
"They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, . . . are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." Luke 20:35, 36. And again He declares that "they that have done good" shall come forth "unto the resurrection of life." John 5:29. The righteous dead will not be raised until after the judgment at which they are accounted worthy of "the resurrection of life."
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels."

Then Claudia you believe in a works based salvation.

It is either ALL Christ that saved you and Him alone or you are not saved.

You can do absolutely NOTHING to assure or ensure your salvation. What you do within salvation (works) is the natural outcome and not that with which we are judged by to HAVE salvation.


If it is not all Christ pertaining to your salvation then you have lost everything.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Shiloh (I think, I really can't tell who is saying what
with all the colored words that disappear when I put
the words in my NOTEPAD format?):

//1. The devil will ultimately have sin placed on him and be "cast" out for redemption to be complete.

2. There is no eternal hell or Lake of Fire.

3. They keep the sabbath day as she calls it Sabbath Sunday or Saturday/Sunday? Confusing I know but that's the SDA.

4. There is NO Eternal Security.

There Mr. Ed is your SDA "christian." //

All of these beliefs, though wrong, are all held by
Baptists (probably not all by any group of Baptists,
except for Adventist Baptists )

Being Baptist does not assure correct doctrine,
being SDA doesn't assure incorrect doctrine
(the SDA does have lots of correct doctrines, in
fact, the SDA folk are our brothers/sisters in Christ).
So folks who are predjudiced against Adventists
are just plain WRONG.

 

[Allan]

Shiloh (I think, I really can't tell who is saying what
with all the colored words that disappear when I put
the words in my NOTEPAD format?):

//1. The devil will ultimately have sin placed on him and be "cast" out for redemption to be complete.

2. There is no eternal hell or Lake of Fire.

3. They keep the sabbath day as she calls it Sabbath Sunday or Saturday/Sunday? Confusing I know but that's the SDA.

4. There is NO Eternal Security.

There Mr. Ed is your SDA "christian." //

All of these beliefs, though wrong, are all held by
Baptists (probably not all by any group of Baptists,
except for Adventist Baptists )

Being Baptist does not assure correct doctrine,
being SDA doesn't assure incorrect doctrine
(the SDA does have lots of correct doctrines, in
fact, the SDA folk are our brothers/sisters in Christ).
So folks who are predjudiced against Adventists
are just plain WRONG.

Let me ask you this.

For salvation to be true in a dotrinal sence:
Would you say this is a correct statement:

That when a person places their faith in Christ it is at that moment till the judgment seat they are secured in Christ and there is absolutely no question of whether or not they will be eternally with Him for He has saved you. That those who placed their faith in Christ will be judged on Christs suffient work ALONE and nothing else to deterning their eternal destiny with Him.

 

[Ed Edwards]

My Scripture says:
Romans 10:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth
the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saued.

Who is using this pseudo scripture?

That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth
the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
that God hath raised him from the dead,
and you are not WRONG about sin being placed on the devil,
and you are not WRONG about the Lake of Fire,
and you are not WRONG about the Sabbath day,
and you are not WRONG about Eternal Security;
then thou shalt be saued.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Yes, I believe we are saved by WORKS.
And the works by which we are saved
are the COMPLETED WORKS of Messiah Jesus.

Our works are dirty cloths - Jeus saved PERIOD.

 

[Allan]

My Scripture says:
Romans 10:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth
the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saued.

Who is using this pseudo scripture?

That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth
the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
that God hath raised him from the dead,
and you are not WRONG about sin being placed on the devil,
and you are not WRONG about the Lake of Fire,
and you are not WRONG about the Sabbath day,
and you are not WRONG about Eternal Security;
then thou shalt be saued.

I wasn't speaking to Shiloh's comments. I was asking you if Christ is the suffient and absolute reason one is saved and nothing else will even be considered except Christ alone.

This is statement is what Claudia and Bob are saying IS NOT TRUE. Refer back to Post # 32 of Claudia's answer to the almost excact same question I asked you and then see her answer.

They hold that our salvation is IN CHrist but the determining factor of whether or not you are ACTUALY saved is in your works and Not Christ as the suffienct means.

This by definition is a works based salvation.

>>>Added In Later<<<

In the SDA Doctrine - They believe that NNE knows whether they are TRUELY saved until the Judgement where (due to your works) you will either be exterminated or welcomed into eternity with Christ. Just being In Christ is has NO ASSURANCE to the SDA for salvation. The Work of Christ (death, burial, and resurrection) was not suffienct for their salvation but they must be judged as well on their works, and if you have ENOUGH works you have proved you are saved. But if your works are not enough then you WILL NOT be saved.

 

[EdSutton]

I note Sister Claudia_T is a SDA Christian. by Mr. Ed

...

There Mr. Ed is your SDA "christian."

Ed Edwards has twice (that I know of) asked, politely, not to be called the moniker of Mr. Ed, because of the identification with the TV show and the talking horse. Claudia_T has noted his request as well. I will now politely request the same thing, in his stead. A little respect, especially for an elder, is not an unreasonable request, IMO, since the Scriptures teach, I thought, a bit of the "love for the brethren" bit. I am defending no one's doctrinal position, per se, in this request.

Ed

 

[D28guy]

"Let me ask you this.

For salvation to be true in a dotrinal sence:
Would you say this is a correct statement:

That when a person places their faith in Christ it is at that moment till the judgment seat they are secured in Christ and there is absolutely no question of whether or not they will be eternally with Him for He has saved you. That those who placed their faith in Christ will be judged on Christs suffient work ALONE and nothing else to deterning their eternal destiny with Him."

I'll add my hearty AMEN to that statement. That is the biblically indentified basis of salvation, and PRAISE THE LORD for it. If ANY part of salvation where left up to us the best person to ever live would fall light years short.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, I believe we are saved by WORKS.
And the works by which we are saved
are the COMPLETED WORKS of Messiah Jesus.

Our works are dirty cloths - Jeus saved PERIOD.

Preach it!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

First lets take some of the wild off-the-wall imaginings of Shiloh and add facts to his fiction.

SHiloh falsely accuses --
//1. The devil will ultimately have sin placed on him and be "cast" out for redemption to be complete.

[/quote]

WRONG!

The Devil and all the wicked will burn in the lake of fire for their OWN SINS. Once all the wicked have sufferred the second death for their OWN sins then ALL sin is fully covered by the payment that God's Perfect law requires.

As obvious as that point is - Shiloh is floundering on it.

Shiloh surmizes

2. There is no eternal hell or Lake of Fire.

The Lake of fire is REAL and it is REAL hell burning REAL sinners in REAL eternal fire.

Shiloh bungles -
3. They keep the sabbath day as she calls it Sabbath Sunday or Saturday/Sunday? Confusing I know but that's the SDA.

WRONG!

God said "Remember the Sabbath day" -- you seem to want to blame SDAs for the words of Scripture. God is the author -- not SDAs.

Shiloh
4. There is NO Eternal Security.

Wrong. There is no OSAS.

Eternal Security is provided via the mechanism stated in Scripture in Romans 8:16.

Since all SDAs ARE ARMINIAN - you will just have to get used to the fact that they reject OSAS according to the scriptures in Matt 18 and "forgiveness revoked".

To borrow HP's model of review - Shiloh get's an F+.

In Christ,

Bob