-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
BUY your way into Heaven! PLEASE!
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
- Status
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Edwards
Yes, I believe we are saved by WORKS.
And the works by which we are saved
are the COMPLETED WORKS of Messiah Jesus.
Our works are dirty cloths - Jeus saved PERIOD.
Now I have absolutely no problem with this, I just wish I knew how to put it into words where people would understand it.
The Holy Spirit washes us clean... but the difference I have between someof you is I know you have to LET the Holy Spirit wash you clean..
Thats why the 5 foolish virgins (and remember all 10 are virgins professing to be God's people with "lamps") ... anyway the 5 foolish virgins DO NOT have the oil... the run out, they no longer have the Holy Spirit
WHY NOT?
Because they CHOSE to reject the Holy Spirits promptings when God through His Spirit was trying to WASH AND REGENERATE them! Thats where the term "Buy" comes in. We do that by deciding to give ourselves to God to allow Him to take the dirty rags from us, to take the dirty heart from us... to be washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
thats why
Does God do everything for us? ABSOLUTELY! But only if we ALLOW Him to!
Thats why there is such thing as "blasphemy" against the Holy Spirit. you can reject it if you want till God leaves you in darkness... the 5 foolish virgins were in darkness, they had no oil in their lamps to light the way.
THAT sums up my belief on this.
Claudia
Originally Posted by Ed Edwards
Yes, I believe we are saved by WORKS.
And the works by which we are saved
are the COMPLETED WORKS of Messiah Jesus.
Our works are dirty cloths - Jeus saved PERIOD.
BobRyan said:
Now I have absolutely no problem with this, I just wish I knew how to put it into words where people would understand it.
The Holy Spirit washes us clean... but the difference I have between someof you is I know you have to LET the Holy Spirit wash you clean..
Thats why the 5 foolish virgins (and remember all 10 are virgins professing to be God's people with "lamps") ... anyway the 5 foolish virgins DO NOT have the oil... the run out, they no longer have the Holy Spirit
WHY NOT?
Because they CHOSE to reject the Holy Spirits promptings when God through His Spirit was trying to WASH AND REGENERATE them! Thats where the term "Buy" comes in. We do that by deciding to give ourselves to God to allow Him to take the dirty rags from us, to take the dirty heart from us... to be washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
thats why
Does God do everything for us? ABSOLUTELY! But only if we ALLOW Him to!
Thats why there is such thing as "blasphemy" against the Holy Spirit. you can reject it if you want till God leaves you in darkness... the 5 foolish virgins were in darkness, they had no oil in their lamps to light the way.
THAT sums up my belief on this.
Claudia
Last edited by a moderator:
Claudia again you are mixing contexts. The parable of the virgins is about saved people. And yes saved people have to let the Holy Spirit wash them. But if they don't they are not unsaved. There are severe consequences for not allowing the cleansing, but its not a loss of salvation and its not evidence of never being saved.
Jesus told Peter that if he didn't let Him wash him that he would have not part "with" Him. It didn't say he wouldn't have no part "in" Him.
Again discipleship, buying, cleansing, etc., etc. have to do with what happens "after" salvation and doesn't have anything to do with salvation. It has everything to do with having a part "with" Christ in His coming kingdom.
Jesus told Peter that if he didn't let Him wash him that he would have not part "with" Him. It didn't say he wouldn't have no part "in" Him.
Again discipleship, buying, cleansing, etc., etc. have to do with what happens "after" salvation and doesn't have anything to do with salvation. It has everything to do with having a part "with" Christ in His coming kingdom.
First lets take some of the wild off-the-wall imaginings of Shiloh and add facts to his fiction.
Quote:
SHiloh falsely accuses --
//1. The devil will ultimately have sin placed on him and be "cast" out for redemption to be complete.
[/quote]
WRONG!
The Devil and all the wicked will burn in the lake of fire for their OWN SINS. Once all the wicked have sufferred the second death for their OWN sins then ALL sin is fully covered by the payment that God's Perfect law requires.
As obvious as that point is - Shiloh is floundering on it.
Explain to me the SDA definition of "satan as the scape goat."
Quote:
Shiloh surmizes
2. There is no eternal hell or Lake of Fire.
The Lake of fire is REAL and it is REAL hell burning REAL sinners in REAL eternal fire.
The SDA believe the wicked will be forever punished in the Lake of Fire for ever?
Quote:
Shiloh bungles -
3. They keep the sabbath day as she calls it Sabbath Sunday or Saturday/Sunday? Confusing I know but that's the SDA.
WRONG!
God said "Remember the Sabbath day" -- you seem to want to blame SDAs for the words of Scripture. God is the author -- not SDAs.
I "blame" (not my words but yours) the SDA for taking Scripture out of context and using an Old Testament law to the Jews for New Tesament Christians.
Quote:
Shiloh
4. There is NO Eternal Security.
Wrong. There is no OSAS. There isn't? oh......let's see what the Bible says. Psa 121:7 The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.
Psa 121:8 The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Eternal Security is provided via the mechanism stated in Scripture in Romans 8:16.
Since all SDAs ARE ARMINIAN - you will just have to get used to the fact that they reject OSAS according to the scriptures in Matt 18 and "forgiveness revoked". They also reject Salvation by Grace through Faith not by "works."
To borrow HP's model of review - Shiloh get's an F+. Thank you, I guess that's better than your "0".
ICB, I know what the SDA's believe, I know what the JW's believeand other cults. The problem with them on here is that this is a "BAPTIST" message board. So000 I am going to make an effort to expose their FALSE doctrine every chance I get. Claudia continues to contradict herself on every issue and you continue to correct her goof ups and I will continue to correct you! How about that arraignment. :smilewinkgrin: shiloh
In Christ,
Bob
Quote:
SHiloh falsely accuses --
//1. The devil will ultimately have sin placed on him and be "cast" out for redemption to be complete.
[/quote]
WRONG!
The Devil and all the wicked will burn in the lake of fire for their OWN SINS. Once all the wicked have sufferred the second death for their OWN sins then ALL sin is fully covered by the payment that God's Perfect law requires.
As obvious as that point is - Shiloh is floundering on it.
Explain to me the SDA definition of "satan as the scape goat."
Quote:
Shiloh surmizes
2. There is no eternal hell or Lake of Fire.
The Lake of fire is REAL and it is REAL hell burning REAL sinners in REAL eternal fire.
The SDA believe the wicked will be forever punished in the Lake of Fire for ever?
Quote:
Shiloh bungles -
3. They keep the sabbath day as she calls it Sabbath Sunday or Saturday/Sunday? Confusing I know but that's the SDA.
WRONG!
God said "Remember the Sabbath day" -- you seem to want to blame SDAs for the words of Scripture. God is the author -- not SDAs.
I "blame" (not my words but yours) the SDA for taking Scripture out of context and using an Old Testament law to the Jews for New Tesament Christians.
Quote:
Shiloh
4. There is NO Eternal Security.
Wrong. There is no OSAS. There isn't? oh......let's see what the Bible says. Psa 121:7 The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.
Psa 121:8 The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Eternal Security is provided via the mechanism stated in Scripture in Romans 8:16.
Since all SDAs ARE ARMINIAN - you will just have to get used to the fact that they reject OSAS according to the scriptures in Matt 18 and "forgiveness revoked". They also reject Salvation by Grace through Faith not by "works."
To borrow HP's model of review - Shiloh get's an F+. Thank you, I guess that's better than your "0".
ICB, I know what the SDA's believe, I know what the JW's believeand other cults. The problem with them on here is that this is a "BAPTIST" message board. So000 I am going to make an effort to expose their FALSE doctrine every chance I get. Claudia continues to contradict herself on every issue and you continue to correct her goof ups and I will continue to correct you! How about that arraignment. :smilewinkgrin: shiloh
In Christ,
Bob
So far claudia I haven't seen you say one thing that actually biblical, you show poor bible study skills, never completely studying anything out, never checking word meanings, never taking anything in context, never allowing scripture to interpret itself, constantly reading into scripture what simply is not there.
If anyone is spouting false doctrines, it's you. And some of the worst I've ever seen here I might add.
If anyone is spouting false doctrines, it's you. And some of the worst I've ever seen here I might add.
Last edited by a moderator:
Oops, I should have clarified. I was speaking as to the theology of J.Jump.Claudia_T said:
That there is a salvation of the soul and seperately a salvation of the spirit.
One salvation is saved through Christ alone for all eternity (Soul) because of the work of Christ Jesus on the Cross.
The other Salvation (spirit) is one that is in regard to Christs physical kingdom where the saints will reign with Him for a 1000 years. IF one does not have good works then that christian will spend the 1000 years in Hell, but afterward spend eternity with Christ. The Christian is in hell for a 1000 years for punishment due to not following Christ as they should have and therefore saves the spirit of the man.
This is where J.Jump is speaking or coming from on his theology.
Last edited by a moderator:
One salvation is saved through Christ alone for all eternity (Soul) because of the work of Christ Jesus on the Cross.
The other Salvation (spirit) is one that is in regard to Christs physical kingdom where the saints will reign with Him for a 1000 years. IF one does not have good works then that christian will spend the 1000 years in Hell, but afterward spend eternity with Christ. The Christian is in hell for a 1000 years for punishment due to not following Christ as they should have and therefore saves the spirit of the man. by Allen
OH MY WORD! WHERE DID YOU GET THIS GARBAGE?
Man o Man, there are more fruit cakes on this board than you can shake a stick at! GIVE ME CHAPTER AND VERSE FOR THIS BUNCH OF JUNK......
The other Salvation (spirit) is one that is in regard to Christs physical kingdom where the saints will reign with Him for a 1000 years. IF one does not have good works then that christian will spend the 1000 years in Hell, but afterward spend eternity with Christ. The Christian is in hell for a 1000 years for punishment due to not following Christ as they should have and therefore saves the spirit of the man. by Allen
OH MY WORD! WHERE DID YOU GET THIS GARBAGE?
Man o Man, there are more fruit cakes on this board than you can shake a stick at! GIVE ME CHAPTER AND VERSE FOR THIS BUNCH OF JUNK......
Well actually Alan you didn't quite portray my beliefs 100% accurately, but that's not surprising not many do.
The salvation of the spirit is based on the finished works of Christ, not the soul as you typed in.
The salvation of the soul is based on a mixture of faith and works as virtually the entire NT tells us.
As far as the 1,000 years go there are definitely Christians that are going to miss the kingdom. They will not rule and reign with Christ, but they will receive the discipline that they should have received now. Unfortunately many a Christian according to Scripture does not receive discipline and therefore are considered illigetimate, according to Hebrews.
Hopefully that clarifies at least for Allan
Scripture only allows for one interpretation, and anything outside of seeing the difference between the salvation of the spirit and the salvation of the soul will only lead to contradictions, which can not exist, because God's Word is perfect and without error.
The salvation of the spirit is based on the finished works of Christ, not the soul as you typed in.
The salvation of the soul is based on a mixture of faith and works as virtually the entire NT tells us.
As far as the 1,000 years go there are definitely Christians that are going to miss the kingdom. They will not rule and reign with Christ, but they will receive the discipline that they should have received now. Unfortunately many a Christian according to Scripture does not receive discipline and therefore are considered illigetimate, according to Hebrews.
Hopefully that clarifies at least for Allan
Scripture only allows for one interpretation, and anything outside of seeing the difference between the salvation of the spirit and the salvation of the soul will only lead to contradictions, which can not exist, because God's Word is perfect and without error.
Actually I forgot to make comment on this comment of Allan's. Allan that is not what I believe. I'm not sure why you typed that, but the Christian in hell does not save the spirit of the man. The spirit of the man is already saved or not before the end of this life whether it be by death or by rapture.
What you have typed is probably closer to what the Catholics teach and that is not what I believe.
So instead of posting my beliefs on my behalf, you could have and should have just said that you were referring to my post and directed Claudia to ask for clarification if she needed any. You have only muddied the water. Hopefully it wasn't intentional. :wavey:
I don't want to come across as mean spirited but, when people deliberately try to lead people astray..... here are some questions. Where do you guys get the idea that there are "Christians" in hell? What are you guys? What are you reading? Where in God's Word do you get faintest idea that there will be "Christians" in hell?
J. Jump said:
J. Jump, with all respect, the scripture about the ten virgins is an illustration, or a simile, rather than a parable.Claudia_T said:
Claudia_T, notwithstanding that, J. Jump is correct about what the illustration is. First, it says "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to...". The "then" is "after the tribulation", (Matt. 24:39), and as the 1000 year Kingdom Age is being set up. Whether or not J. Jump, you, me or any other person is correct on some things is always debatable. However, here at least, he is absolutely correct. To read "heaven", as in the eternal state, into this text, is to read into the text something that is not there, in order to arrive at your position. It's called eisegesis.
Ed
- Status