By Grace

amen.

 

Amen and Amen

David

 

Ya know Bob Krajcik,
I think you miss a very important fact.

EVERYTHING that happens in the world today and for the past 4000-6000 years, has been done while God's grace prevails for all mankind.

It is while God is behaving graciously toward mankind that man gets the opportunity to hear the word, and to come to faith in God, and even to reject God and still live the rest of the Natural human life.

All of the scriptures you posted get a heartfelt AMEN, but if you believe we are saved by grace, then I must say sincerely you are mistaken. All mankind is under God's grace, but not all of mankind are saved by grace! Indeed no one is saved BY GRACE, meaning of course that Grace is the Savior of man.

Jesus is God's gracious gift to mankind, but Jesus is not grace, He atoned for sin while God's grace is present. His gracious gift to man is everlasting life for those who believe in Him while God's grace is present.

I think you need to step back and see what Grace truly is! AND what it is not!

 

God rides forth conquering in the chariot of His Gospel. . . He conquers the pride of the heart, and makes the will which stood out as a Fort Royal against Him, to yield and stoop to His grace; He makes the stony heart bleed.

Irresistible Grace

Praise God for His saving grace.

David
( Chosen before the foundation of the world )
( Elect of God )
( My life is hidden with Christ in God )

 

Prove that Grace is what Saves.

Prove that grace is irresistible?

Why is grace resistible for some and not others?

 

I am living proof. Are not you?
Ask God, regarding your last question.

David

 

God saves by His grace.

God predestined and justified those He called... not maybe... not if they happened to choose well... but according to God's divine plan He decreed it.

It is in the nature of Christ's sheep to hear his voice and follow.

Some are quickened by the Spirit while others continue in their own self-centered will.

 

This is always difficult to explain.

Its like God knew who would accept His Grace and who would despise it. This knowing thing, because He dwells outside of time, but its more than that.

Gods Grace is the most precious thing you can imagine, Jesus told us not to cast our pearls before swine, God alone is Judge as to His will in things.

When Christ returns, people are going to want rocks and mountains to fall in on them to hide themselves from God, WHY, because He is Beautiful and Lovely and Great beyond imagination.

O Lord give me the words to express your Truth.

Amen

David

 

Those who come to God must believe that He exists, and that He is the rewarder of those that seek Him.

Wes if you Believe God exists, ask Him, He will answer you.

David

 

David,
I have asked God that very thing and here's what he revealed through his word to me.

God's word speaking:
"My grace is present for all mankind"

"man could not comply with every jot and tittle of the law, so "All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"

"I declared that sin must have a penalty of death"

"I destroyed Mankind once in a flood and that grieved me so much that I promised that I would never do that again and sealed my promise with a rainbow"

"Yes, I did find one man whom I favored because of his FAITH in me, and told him to build an ARK, He was the slowest carpenter I've ever seen, but he faithfully did as I asked him to inspite of all the ridicule from his fellow man. And in my grace all during the hundred or so years that Noah was building the ARK, I waited for others to see Noah's faith and repent from their sins, but alas they did not. And yes, I did save Noah along with his faithful and dutiful wife, their three sons and their wives, along with a male and female of every species of animal...Oh yes, before you ask, and the mosquito, and cockroach!"

"Then there was that episode with Sodom and Gomorrah where Abraham deliberately attempted to talk me out of cleaning house with them. Abraham lost the argument, but I did save ol' Lot and his two, at that time obedient, daughters, its just too bad that his wife disobeyed my orders and had to see what what happening to her home."

"I love all mankind so very much, why can't they see that and obey me?"

Well I had considered an alternative plan since I knew that man would sin and I had a book prepared before I created the heavens and the earth. I called it "The Book of Life", pretty novel don't you think? I made it so that names could be written in and blotted from, because the way I made man, with most of the same abilities, though not the power, that I myself have. And Knowing the evil one as I do, I knew he would be able to deceive many men, even some of those who claim faith in me."

"Even so, man remained prone to sinning, and the penalty for sinning is death. That gave me no pleasure because I knew that no man would be around when I want to hear their praises and accept from them their offerings to me. And I do so love them all."

"I told my prophets to tell the people that I would send to them a Messiah. It's really funny how they were thinking that messiah meant "the undefeatable Conquering Hero". So when they least expected it, I sent my only begotten son to them in the form of a human male baby child. Shoot, they didn't even have a room for him in their inn. So he was born in a dirty ol' manger where they feed their animals, and of course where their animals poop too! Imagine the holy child of the living God born in squaller. But, of course I had my prophets mention something about that long before it happened."

"Well when my amazing kid got old enough he went into the desert to be tried, and true to his form the evil one did what He could, but my son did not fall for his tricks. So when he returned He needed to get wet and I showed him another of my elect, ol' John the baptiser. Sell John was reluctant to baptise God the son, but was persuaded to do so. I blew the minds of all those who were watching by presenting myself in all three of my persons, Voice from heaven, Spirit like a dove, and of course me in the form of a human. And men have been arguing about that for two thousand years."

"Let me tell you, my son became very popular with the general population where he was, and that made those pious, and pompous religious leaders, the priests very angry, but they couldn't do anything to him until I let them." I gave my boy 12 men out of the general population so that he could teach them his ways, which are my ways. And I gotta tell you he did a great job on them. I am so pleased with him."

"The really sad part of the story is that the people whom I set aside for myself, rejected my son who was by birth one of them. That made me consider that there are other peoples who would accept him readily."

"At the appointed time, I gave my son over to the religious leaders knowing full well what they would do to Him. But he knew that it had to happen even though he pleaded with me to make it not happen. Sure enough those same Sadducees and Pharisees, held a mock trial, a real mockery of justice, even taking him before the gentile leaders, to ridicule him. Well that part of the story ends on a Cross on a hill just outside my beloved City Jerusalem. It's really amazing how much my son withstood before he died, and ya know, He asked me to forgive them for doing it because they did not know what they were doing....But we did!"

"We had arranged it before I made the heavens and the earth. And my boy Jesus was happy to be chosen for the task, because he knew that the result would be that man could then have everlasting life through simple faith in Him. And that in dying to atone for sin, he would defeat the snares of the evil one. That through believing man could escape the penalty the evil one wants carried out. That pleased him much, and yes it pleases me to be gracious toward man so that man can hear the story and believe in my son and have life, just as it was foretold."

God tells me that all the work for man's salvation is completed, and all that remains is for man to decide whether or not to believe. That He, God, gives it unto man to make the choice for his own destiny. But he reminds us that He alone has laid before us life and death, then told us to choose life.

 

Oh, one more thing that He told me, "That Calvin fellow must think that most men just fell off the turnip wagon, to fall for his "doctrines of Grace", the 5 point doctrine based on his interpretation of My Holy Word". That is not my plan of salvation for man at all!

 

It is extremely foolish to pretend to speak for God. Let's avoid that type of argument in here. Let's rise above that and talk about the things God has said.

 

If you will notice Larry, I was not speaking for God I was paraphrasing stories and events in the bible. There is no difference in that than there is in Interpreting passages of the bible.

There are literally libraries full of books where the authors do the same thing I did on this bbs.

 

You speak of God revealing things to you from his word, and then say things that aren't in his word. Use his word to make your points. Don't paraphrase stuff and pretend that God said it. That is inappropriate.

 

This are the thoughts you had before I replied to your questions, you have not prayed and received an answer since then.

I will try to go through what you say, a bit.

Gods grace present for all mankind, yes he causes the sun to rise and the rain to rain on the wicked and the good alike.

Thats not the Grace I am talking about.

All fall short of the Glory of God. We agree

I declared that sin must have a penalty of death

yes, "choose this day Life or death"


I destroyed Mankind once in a flood and that grieved me so much that I promised that I would never do that again and sealed my promise with a rainbow

Is'nt it funny how he did not destroy Noah, yet all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Noah must have received a different type of Grace. Herein lies the answer to your questions.

David

 

There is only one God, how many graces do you think he has?

Look at your self, how man graces do you have?

 

Funny? If he had you wouldn't be here on this BBS if hadn't.

Did you notice the reason God did not destroy Noah? Noah had faith in God, was a righteous man among a world of sinners. Different type of Grace? How many graces are there?

 

Hey Wes,

What part of "For by grace are ye saved.." do you not understand? To me that is pretty clear that salvation is by grace. It is pretty clear for all conservative orthodox theologians since the beginning of church history as well.

Be careful in saying that salvation is anything but of grace, for then it is the result of somthing I do. I shudder at the thought of that.