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Calvinists Do Not Hold To Open Theism
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Greetings Jesus Fan. Great to read your stuff again.
In regards to your OP. A couple of points from my perspective.
1. I think one can hold to the sovereignty of God and claim that "God knows all things knowable". In this way, one can say they are upholding the sovereignty of God and also claim that God does not know the future. Because it is not knowable.
2. Some Open Theists try and reconcile some key issues by being Molinists. Although, then most claim there are counterfactuals that are coexistent with God.
3. From my perspective, Calvinist are not Open Theists. Especially if one is a pure determinist.
4. Not all Calvinists are pure determinists. At least from my experience. Although, the High Calvinist would claim those are not really Calvinists.
Got to go to church
Peace to you brother.
In regards to your OP. A couple of points from my perspective.
1. I think one can hold to the sovereignty of God and claim that "God knows all things knowable". In this way, one can say they are upholding the sovereignty of God and also claim that God does not know the future. Because it is not knowable.
2. Some Open Theists try and reconcile some key issues by being Molinists. Although, then most claim there are counterfactuals that are coexistent with God.
3. From my perspective, Calvinist are not Open Theists. Especially if one is a pure determinist.
4. Not all Calvinists are pure determinists. At least from my experience. Although, the High Calvinist would claim those are not really Calvinists.
Got to go to church
Peace to you brother.
Mikey
Active Member
1. To say God that there are things unknowable to God, that is Heresy.
3. Not sure what you mean by "pure determinism".
If God predestines (ordains) whatsoever comes to pass (WCF) but is not the author of sin we have two options:
1) God did not predestine our sin, thus Open Theism
2) God predestined our sin, making Him the author of our sin, but claim otherwise using cognitive dissonance.
1) God did not predestine our sin, thus Open Theism
2) God predestined our sin, making Him the author of our sin, but claim otherwise using cognitive dissonance.
Isaiah Chapter 46
9 | Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me; |
10 | declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure; |
Hi Mickey. Thank you for your reply. Hope and peace to you brother.
In regard to your #1. It might be splitting hairs here but what some Open Theists say is...
(A) Some things are not knowable.
This is not the same as saying
(B) There are things that are knowable that is unknown to God.
I, personally, see the distinction. I don't agree with Open Theists on the issue. but I see the distinction.
I can entertain an Open Theist Molinist. But in the end, deny the Molinist position also. I think the future, in regard to God's creation, is knowable. It is knowable because it is in the mind of God. And God's knows it
Peace to you brother.
What is this open theism position?
Greetings Zaatar. Hope your weekend was blessed.
Just my two cents. Open Theism based on people I have talked to in the past, think that...
1. Strict Determinism is incompatible with libertarian free will (obviously).
2. Any foreknowledge (knowing the future of what one would do) is not compatible with libertarian free will.
3. Mankind has free will.
4. Therefore, the future of what one will do is not knowable.
Peace to you brother
Refers to God being direct cause of all that happens, as He would hve caused the Fall Himself, determined it to come to pass Himself for example
or van and others here always take Hyper Calvinism doctrine of predestination as to what all of us hold with
Yes, as those advocating for Open Theism thinks that if God was really Omniscience then that would eliminate full free will, but they are making a big assumption that type of free will even exits
Open Theism, according to Theopedia, is a theological perspective that asserts God's knowledge of the future is not exhaustive, particularly concerning the free choices of humans. This view is associated with libertarian free will, which maintains that individuals have the ability to make choices that are not predetermined by God or external factors. Per Theopedia
Basically, we must keep individual full free will intact for us by limited the free will of God