Calvinists

[Zaatar71]

Many post against the truths of The Doctrines of Grace. They make excuses, or give supposed reasons they cannot believe these truths.
Which excuse do you find the least sincere, the most annoying, and the most disingenuous, and why?

1] I cannot find it in my bible !

2] It is Manichean,Gnostic, philosophy, Augustine, Calvin, blah, blah, blah !

3] Men have free will, in my bible, but not in reality,blah, blah, blah!

4] I used to be an actual Calvinist, but now, blah, blah, blah,

5] I was trapped into believing such theory, but now...Blah, blah, blah,

6] Calvinism is just wrong, because I say so, even though I cannot disprove it scripturally. blah, blah, blah...

7 ] I cannot see any doctrine if i cannot see it, in what is written...blah blah, blah

8] I used to believe it was truth, but I have departed from it...blah, blah, blah

9] I once was a Calvinist, even though, i never understood it, blah, blah, blah

10] I know millions have believed this, but I do not see how...blah, blah, blah

11] I cannot disprove it biblically, but let me offer a caricature, that I want you Calvinists to defend,...blah, blah, blah

12 ] PSA is only a Theory, and not scriptural, because I do not understand the verses correctly, blah, blah, blah

You get the idea. Which of these do you find least sincere, annoying, or disingenuous...and WHY? enjoy!

 

[JesusFan]

Many post against the truths of The Doctrines of Grace. They make excuses, or give supposed reasons they cannot believe these truths.
Which excuse do you find the least sincere, the most annoying, and the most disingenuous, and why?

1] I cannot find it in my bible !

2] It is Manichean,Gnostic, philosophy, Augustine, Calvin, blah, blah, blah !

3] Men have free will, in my bible, but not in reality,blah, blah, blah!

4] I used to be an actual Calvinist, but now, blah, blah, blah,

5] I was trapped into believing such theory, but now...Blah, blah, blah,

6] Calvinism is just wrong, because I say so, even though I cannot disprove it scripturally. blah, blah, blah...

7 ] I cannot see any doctrine if i cannot see it, in what is written...blah blah, blah

8] I used to believe it was truth, but I have departed from it...blah, blah, blah

9] I once was a Calvinist, even though, i never understood it, blah, blah, blah

10] I know millions have believed this, but I do not see how...blah, blah, blah

11] I cannot disprove it biblically, but let me offer a caricature, that I want you Calvinists to defend,...blah, blah, blah

12 ] PSA is only a Theory, and not scriptural, because I do not understand the verses correctly, blah, blah, blah

You get the idea. Which of these do you find least sincere, annoying, or disingenuous...and WHY? enjoy!

common reasons include it denies free will, makes us robots and puppets, it makes God author of sin, it makes God evil, and makes God not fir in salvation process

 

[Zaatar71]

common reasons include it denies free will, makes us robots and puppets, it makes God author of sin, it makes God evil, and makes God not fir in salvation process

Good helpful post. Robots, puppets, good ones!

 

[Zaatar71]

We would like this to be a helpful and positive thread. To do that, let me ask a follow up question,or two'

As someone who actually believes the scriptures teaching these truths

1] Does the continued denials saying this teaching is false without any meaningful scripture being offered change your mind?

2} Have any of you read the Manichean,Gnostic, philosophy playbook? Did you complete this course on Gnostic ideas,lol?

3] Are any of you men who believe these truths convinced by those who suggest they used to believe this, even when they show they have no real understanding by what they post?

4] When someone says they do not see these truths in scripture, does that shake you up? Cause you to question truth?

5] When men say I cannot find these truths in scripture, I believe them! How can we help them? pray for them?

6] If someone denies these truths and appeals to imaginary folks, does that rock your theological world?

Calvinist brothers...do you pray for those who do such things that God will allow them to see it,
Are you patient with those who oppose themselves?
What do you do? How can we best help them?
List as many ideas as you can think of...Thanks in Advance!

 

[JonC]

Others object to the first head, sec 17 of the Doctrines of Grace (election). That is why no Baotist actually belueves the Doctrines of Grace (they believe a superficial form...a new Doctrines of Grace).

Others disagree simply because Calvinism is unbiblical (or, at best, extra-biblical).

Many Christians hold to "sola scriptura". Obviously this excludes Calvinists and Roman Catholics. But to hold to that principle (sola scriptura) is to denounce both Calvinism and Roman Catholicism as unbiblical.

 

[cjab]

Others object to the first head, sec 17 of the Doctrines of Grace (election). That is why no Baotist actually belueves the Doctrines of Grace (they believe a superficial form...a new Doctrines of Grace).

Others disagree simply because Calvinism is unbiblical (or, at best, extra-biblical).

Many Christians hold to "sola scriptura". Obviously this excludes Calvinists and Roman Catholics. But to hold to that principle (sola scriptura) is to denounce both Calvinism and Roman Catholicism as unbiblical.

There are three sources of doctrine (διδασκαλία) known to scripture:

(1) The doctrines of God (Titus 2:20)
(2) The doctrines of men (in a pejorative sense) (Mark 7:7, Matt 15:9, Eph 4:14 etc)
(3) The doctrines of devils (Eph 4:14, 1 Tim 4:1).

(2) & (3) may equate to the same thing.

I never knew that there was a "doctrine of grace" until I came across Calvinism. The term itself doesn't appear to accord with sola scriptura, and is therefore at risk of being seen as a "doctrine of men/devils". From whom did the "doctrine of grace" originate?

 

[JonC]

Yes, most Christiabs reject Cakvinism and today many within Calvinism are trying to make it mire biblical.

Let's look at your list:

1] I cannot find it in my bible !

Even Calvinists cannot find Calvinism in their Bible. They claim that the Bible, when properly understood teaches Calvinism. The problem is most Christians are not Calvinists. Most do not believe the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement correct. Among these are Christians who also hold extra-biblical authorities.

BUT among the anti-Calvinists are Christians who hold a positiin called "sola scriptura". We believe that the Bible means what is written in the Bible. And while we may disagree among one another about interpretation we believe that God's Word makes sence snd is complete as written.

2] It is Manichean,Gnostic, philosophy, Augustine, Calvin, blah, blah, blah !

It is a developed theology, specifically reformed Roman Catholic doctrine. How do we know? Because we have their writings. Cslvin reformed Aquinas' theory (Roman Catholic doctrine). But it grew from there. Beza systemic Calvin's writings which really started what we kniw as "Calvinism".

3] Men have free will, in my bible, but not in reality,blah, blah, blah!

Yes, in the Bible men have free will. The problem is many Calvinists like to redefine "free will"as libertarian free will (a theoretical form if free will).

4] I used to be an actual Calvinist, but now, blah, blah, blah,

Many used to be a Calvinist. I was a Calvinist for a long time. Many leave Calvinism not because they misunderstand the philosophy but because they turn to God's Word.

5] I was trapped into believing such theory, but now...Blah, blah, blah,

I do not think that anyody can be trapped in Calvinism and be a Christian. Believers constantly reevaluate their understanding. One may be close to being trapped but God will dos spline them and they will return to Him before they are carried away by.the philosophy.

Those who are really trapped have beeN carried away from the faith already. My opinion is they have gone ti the point if grieving the Spirit and are beyond salvation, given over to a depraved mind.

6] Calvinism is just wrong, because I say so, even though I cannot disprove it scripturally. blah, blah, blah...

This would certainly be a foolish position as there are too many proofs against Calvinism. But the main issue is we are to test doctrine with Scripture - not to prove a negative but to declare what is absent to be a false doctrine.
7 ] I cannot see any doctrine if i cannot see it, in what is written...blah blah, blah

Here you are wrong. Most peoole understand Calvinism. It is not difficult. So we can see the dictrine in post-Reformation Calvinistic writers. The problem is it is not actually in the Bible.

Put it this way -nobody who believes the Bible teaches what is actually contained in God's Word will be a Calvinist.

8] I used to believe it was truth, but I have departed from it...blah, blah, blah

Many are in this category. You are just repeating #4.

But yes, many Calvinists have repented and turned back to God snd His Word. There are even movements within Calvinism to bring it closer to Scripture. And yes, there are also Calvinists who indoctrinated themselves on the opinions of men from the 18th century. No wonder it is a dying faith.

9] I once was a Calvinist, even though, i never understood it, blah, blah, blah

Gen that Calvinism is the ultimate form of "easy believism", I suppose this hapoens often. I have known people who were saved, listened to a Calvinistic sermon, and quickly left the philosophy and that church. Many times those young in the faith have a zeal for God's Word, and when a Calvinistic sermon stands in contrast to Scrioture they will naturally leave.

10] I know millions have believed this, but I do not see how...blah, blah, blah

This one is strange. Millions more reject Calvinism (to include the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement). Calvinists rightly ignore that they have always been a minority sect. Truth is not a popularity context.

Another strange part why would anybody not see how people are Calvinists. God warns us against being cartied away by this type of philosophy, so obviously it is possible. But it is also the ultimate form of "easy-believism". I'm surprised Calvinism never became more popular in secular churches. But I suppose forms of it has.

11] I cannot disprove it biblically, but let me offer a caricature, that I want you Calvinists to defend,...blah, blah, blah

With these doctrines it is not up to the Christian to disprove but the theorists to prove. That said, it is easy to disprove, just not to the Calvinist because they define Scrioture not as God's Word but what they belueve the Bible teaches.

12 ] PSA is only a Theory, and not scriptural, because I do not understand the verses correctly, blah, blah, blah

Yes, the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement is one of several theories of Atonement.

It was a reform of Roman Catholic doctrine (Aquinas' theory). And yes, it is not in the Bible. This is why nobody has been able to provide passages affirming the theory....and why it remains a theory.

 

[JonC]

There are three sources of doctrine (διδασκαλία) known to scripture:

(1) The doctrines of God (Titus 2:20)
(2) The doctrines of men (in a pejorative sense) (Mark 7:7, Matt 15:9, Eph 4:14 etc)
(3) The doctrines of devils (Eph 4:14, 1 Tim 4:1).

(2) & (3) may equate to the same thing.

I never knew that there was a "doctrine of grace" until I came across Calvinism. The term itself doesn't appear to accord with sola scriptura, and is therefore at risk of being seen as a "doctrine of men/devils". From whom did the "doctrine of grace" originate?

It has become popular among Calvinists to refer to their faith as "the Doctrines of Grace". This is the "Five heads" of doctrine.

It is, IMHO, both doctrine of man and satanic. One may be a Christian and a Calvinist, but it depends on how they hold their understanding or how their understanding holds them. It could just be a benign leaning, something Calvinistic Christians hold with a grain of salt. But it is an unbiblic philosophy that can carry people away from the faith. It has also become a barrier to others salvation in that it is obviously unbiblical at worse, extra-biblical at best.

 

[Zaatar71]

There are three sources of doctrine (διδασκαλία) known to scripture:

(1) The doctrines of God (Titus 2:20)
(2) The doctrines of men (in a pejorative sense) (Mark 7:7, Matt 15:9, Eph 4:14 etc)
(3) The doctrines of devils (Eph 4:14, 1 Tim 4:1).

(2) & (3) may equate to the same thing.

I never knew that there was a "doctrine of grace" until I came across Calvinism. The term itself doesn't appear to accord with sola scriptura, and is therefore at risk of being seen as a "doctrine of men/devils". From whom did the "doctrine of grace" originate?

Hello Cjab.,
These teaching are described in several ways in scripture;

1] Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

2] John 7:
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

3] 2tim3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Calvinists understand what is written and as Godly men have expounded it. They are still growing in these truths.
There are others who are still learning. They see in part, but are still learning.
There are others who resist Godly teachers and drift-like here; Eph4:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Thanks for your post, and contribution to this thread!

 

[Zaatar71]

It has become popular among Calvinists to refer to their faith as "the Doctrines of Grace". This is the "Five heads" of doctrine.

It is, IMHO, both doctrine of man and satanic. One may be a Christian and a Calvinist, but it depends on how they hold their understanding or how their understanding holds them. It could just be a benign leaning, something Calvinistic Christians hold with a grain of salt. But it is an unbiblic philosophy that can carry people away from the faith. It has also become a barrier to others salvation in that it is obviously unbiblical at worse, extra-biblical at best.

These teaching are described in several ways in scripture;

1] Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

2] John 7:
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

3] 2tim3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Calvinists understand what is written and as Godly men have expounded it. They are still growing in these truths.
There are others who are still learning. They see in part, but are still learning.
There are others who resist Godly teachers and drift-like here; Eph4:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Thanks for your post, and contribution to this thread!

 

[Zaatar71]

Yes, most Christiabs reject Cakvinism and today many within Calvinism are trying to make it mire biblical.

Here JonC gives an opinion, a subjective opinion that has no substance.
Thanks for offering this opinion that you alone hold!

 

[Zaatar71]

It has become popular among Calvinists to refer to their faith as "the Doctrines of Grace". This is the "Five heads" of doctrine.

We cannot call it the doctrine of works , now can we?

It is, IMHO, both doctrine of man and satanic.

IMHO, your post is just that!

One may be a Christian and a Calvinist, but it depends on how they hold their understanding or how their understanding holds them.

One may be a Christian and a Non - Calvinist, but it depends on how they hold their understanding or how their understanding holds them.

. But it is an unbiblic philosophy that can carry people away from the faith.

But Anti Calvinism is an unbiblical philosophy that can carry people away from the faith.

It has also become a barrier to others salvation in that it is obviously unbiblical at worse, extra-biblical at best.

The Anti Cal asks unsaved man to do what only God has declared that he can do!
Give a new heart, Indwell with the Holy Spirit.
Quicken a dead sinner to life!

Once again, anti-Cal musings come up short, they fail against the truth of God.

 

[JonC]

These teaching are described in several ways in scripture;

1] Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

2] John 7:
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

3] 2tim3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Calvinists understand what is written and as Godly men have expounded it. They are still growing in these truths.
There are others who are still learning. They see in part, but are still learning.
There are others who resist Godly teachers and drift-like here; Eph4:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Thanks for your post, and contribution to this thread!

Ok....funny and sad.

The doctrine given is God's Word. You have completely failed to provide any passages whatsoever that actually supports Calvinism.

You believe what men have told you the Bible really teaches. BUT what if the Bible actually teaches what is written in the Bible? Then your faith is useless.

 

[JonC]

We cannot call it the doctrine of works , now can we?

IMHO, your post is just that!

One may be a Christian and a Non - Calvinist, but it depends on how they hold their understanding or how their understanding holds them.



But Anti Calvinism is an unbiblical philosophy that can carry people away from the faith.

The Anti Cal asks unsaved man to do what only God has declared that he can do!
Give a new heart, Indwell with the Holy Spirit.
Quicken a dead sinner to life!

Once again, anti-Cal musings come up short, they fail against the truth of God.

You could call it Doctrines of Calvin, or Doctrines of Beza. Calling it Doctrines of Grace is using God's name in vain because it implies God's grace.

I agree people can also be carried away by non-Calvinistic philosophy. This is why it is so important not to lean on our understanding but on every word from God.

Some Anti-Calvinists may ask men to do what they can't. Some Calvinists baptize babies (under the Dictrines of Grace).

The problem is Calvinism stands apart from God's Word. It is "easy-believism" in its ultimate form. Ultimately it denies the necessity of Christ's death.

 

[Zaatar71]

Ok....funny and sad.

Glad you enjoyed it!

The doctrine given is God's Word.

Yes it is!

You have completely failed to provide any passages whatsoever that actually supports Calvinism.

2 tim3:16-17 covers it!

You believe what men have told you the Bible really teaches

Actually I believe and understand scripture as written! I just understand most of it.

. BUT what if the Bible actually teaches what is written in the Bible?

That is exactly the Point. This is what is taught. Calvinists understand it.

Then your faith is useless.

Not at all. It is a means to commune with God and serve in His kingdom! Thanks for these posts!

 

[JonC]

Glad you enjoyed it!

Yes it is!

2 tim3:16-17 covers it!

Actually I believe and understand scripture as written! I just understand most of it.

That is exactly the Point. This is what is taught. Calvinists understand it.

Not at all. It is a means to commune with God and serve in His kingdom! Thanks for these posts!

All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work.

Absolutely. The problem is you have repeatedly dismissed Scrioture in favor of what you have been told Scripture teaches.

For example, are there any passages that call those "dead in their sins" the elect? No. There are passages saying those numbered among the ekect were once "dead in their trespasses" and that those who ate "ekect" are those who ate spiritually alive and believe. You think that teaches that there are elect who are dead in their sins but will be saved. That is extra-biblical (God's Word does not state that, you think it teaches that) and unbiblical (2 Cor 13 and 2 Peter 1 contrafict that teaching).

Let's call it as it is.

I had a choice - sola scriptura or Calvinism. I chose God's Word. You had the same choice and you chose Calvinism. Either the Bible teaches what is written in the Bible or the Bible teaches Calvinism. We will know which is true soon enough.

 

[Zaatar71]

All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work.

Absolutely. The problem is you have repeatedly dismissed Scrioture in favor of what you have been told Scripture teaches.

No, not all I read and understand scripture. I believe it as written. When I check saints who have gone before me, I notice that all Confessional Christians, saw the exact same things!

For example, are there any passages that call those "dead in their sins" the elect? No.

Yes there are. You suggest No, because you attempt to explain them away, to no avail!

There are passages saying those numbered among the ekect were once "dead in their trespasses" and that those who ate "ekect" are those who ate spiritually alive and believe.

I am thinking these are text errors ate, ekect...Not sure what these communications are saying???

You think that teaches that there are elect who are dead in their sins but will be saved.

God said that His Sheep were lost, and he would seek and save His sheep. The word Elect sheep is not in EZk.34, but the teaching for any who understand it is, God has His elect sheep, they are temporarily lost, But he will seek and save everyone of them. If you want to explain it away, Have at it, but I will believe it with the correct biblical understanding!

That is extra-biblical (God's Word does not state that, you think it teaches that) and unbiblical

No, it is totally biblical to those who believe the bible with understanding! It looks as if you would be in unbelief, unless I amnot understanding what you are trying to say?

(2 Cor 13 and 2 Peter 1 contrafict that teaching).

No, they do not. You say they do, but none of us would agree with you. Are there ant real Calvinists here who would agree with what John is offering?

Let's call it as it is.

I have, I call it the faith, once delivered to the saints.

I had a choice - sola scriptura or Calvinism.

I believe both of these. It is not an either or choice!

I chose God's Word.

So did I, only I understand what it teaches, you are still trying to figure it out, evidently! Hope it works out for you.

or the Bible teaches Calvinism.

Yes it does, Both are true! Now we are getting somewhere!

We will know which is true soon enough.

Yes... I think many of us see it , thanks for your helpful posts!

 

[JonC]

No, not all I read and understand scripture. I believe it as written. When I check saints who have gone before me, I notice that all Confessional Christians, saw the exact same things!

Yes there are. You suggest No, because you attempt to explain them away, to no avail!

I am thinking these are text errors ate, ekect...Not sure what these communications are saying???

God said that His Sheep were lost, and he would seek and save His sheep. The word Elect sheep is not in EZk.34, but the teaching for any who understand it is, God has His elect sheep, they are temporarily lost, But he will seek and save everyone of them. If you want to explain it away, Have at it, but I will believe it with the correct biblical understanding!

No, it is totally biblical to those who believe the bible with understanding! It looks as if you would be in unbelief, unless I amnot understanding what you are trying to say?

No, they do not. You say they do, but none of us would agree with you. Are there ant real Calvinists here who would agree with what John is offering?

I have, I call it the faith, once delivered to the saints.

I believe both of these. It is not an either or choice!

So did I, only I understand what it teaches, you are still trying to figure it out, evidently! Hope it works out for you.

Again, I chose what scripture teaches! Some call it Calvinism, some Tulip, some call it the truth of God. I and others on here believe it, we are believers. You apparently are an unbeliever, as you suggest it is from Satan??? Does any Calvinist here think it is from Satan???

Yes it does

Yes it does, Both are true! Now we are getting somewhere!

Yes... I think many of us see it , thanks for your helpful posts!

I know what you believe the Bible teaches.

My point is that I believe the Bible teaches "what is written" in Scripture.
And why wouldn't the Bible teach what is written in God's Word? Why would it teach something not written?

You seem frustrated that there are no actual passages that state your faith while Scripture is replete with passages actually stating my belief. Don't take that out on me. We each had a choice and we each made our choice.

 

[Zaatar71]

I know what you believe the Bible teaches.

My point is that I believe the Bible teaches "what is written" in Scripture.

So do I... only I believe it with understanding. You seem to just read what is written,,,without any understanding! You claim to believe in the Trinity, or the rapture, without those words being" what is Written" The Servant of The Lord from Isa. 42- 53 is spoken of, and yet "what is written" does not say literally...Jesus is the Servant . So enough with this weak excuse, to avoid truth. You can hold to such an excuse, but that is on you then.

And why wouldn't the Bible teach what is written in God's Word?

It does! That is why we are looking to see if any can avoid the excuses, and accept the truth!

Why would it teach something not written?

:It does teach these truths, except to those who do not understand yet! Mt13.
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

You seem frustrated that there are no actual passages that state your faith while Scripture

What I believe is found in all scripture. I am not frustrated whatsoever, by unbelievers!

is replete with passages actually stating my belief.

Your nonsensical claim is that you make your speech, you go by what is written. Then you quote passages that are in the bible, like;
6 Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
Then you say..see I believe what is written, but your posts are off topic, then you say..see I believe what is written! We have seen you do this for weeks now...but you answer no real questions by this trick!

Don't take that out on me.

I am just showing you offer no substance, like my original posts spoke of!

We each had a choice and we each made our choice.

yes, many of us are believers in the truths of grace. others are still trying to learn, and sort of catch up! Thanks for your thoughtful reply!

 

[JonC]

So do I... only I believe it with understanding. You seem to just read what is written,,,without any understanding! You claim to believe in the Trinity, or the rapture, without those words being" what is Written" The Servant of The Lord from Isa. 42- 53 is spoken of, and yet "what is written" does not say literally...Jesus is the Servant . So enough with this weak excuse, to avoid truth. You can hold to such an excuse, but that is on you then.

It does! That is why we are looking to see if any can avoid the excuses, and accept the truth!

:It does teach these truths, except to those who do not understand yet! Mt13.
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.


What I believe is found in all scripture. I am not frustrated whatsoever, by unbelievers!

Your nonsensical claim is that you make your speech, you go by what is written. Then you quote passages that are in the bible, like;
6 Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
Then you say..see I believe what is written, but your posts are off topic, then you say..see I believe what is written! We have seen you do this for weeks now...but you answer no real questions by this trick!

I am just showing you offer no substance, like my original posts spoke of!

yes, many of us are believers in the truths of grace. others are still trying to learn, and sort of catch up! Thanks for your thoughtful reply!

The difference is I understand "what is written", so I easily think that what the Bible teaches IS what is written in the Bible.

You believe that the Bible teavhes what is not actually written in its text.

Maybe if what was written seemed lacking to me I'd agree with you. But God's Word, the text of Scripture, makes srnce. No need to add to it or change it.

You still have not defended your faith by Scripture. You posted some passages, but you never posted a passage that states what you believe.

You do not know what I believe because you never asked and I never volunteered. All you know is I insist that Scripture teaches what is written in its text rather than what men think it may teach.