-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Can a Person Live Without Sinning
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
ScottEmerson
Active Member
A child who dies after five breaths has not sinned, so it is possible for a person to live a life and not sin.
So, I suppose there is your answer.
So, I suppose there is your answer.
But the child still has a sin nature and needs a redeemer. There are not two ways into heaven, only one. By Grace. This grace is usually applied through the means of faith, but in the case of a child who dies and doesn't ever have faith in Christ; only God knows what He will do. I trust him to be just, but the Bible really doesn't answer this question for us. We must just trust God.
Re-evaluate the above statement. In light of the death of the child born to David and Bathsheba, you just declared David to be....
Or how else did David know what the child 'would do.'
Also, you are saying that some infants are thus condemned to hell.
The greater problem is that you propose God to found His elect upon His foreknowledge of their future actions, thus, you devise a system conducive to, and reliant upon the works of man. I think still, the Scriptural Doctrine of Election holds true.
I agree with your statement concerning being born with and in the sin nature. All who are born of man are just that and no more.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
ScottEmerson
Active Member
Do you believe such a child needs a Redeemer? </font>[/QUOTE]Absolutely. But the child has still not sinned.
TheTravelingMinstrel
New Member
Do you believe such a child needs a Redeemer? </font>[/QUOTE]Absolutely. But the child has still not sinned. </font>[/QUOTE]This is wrong. I sincerly suggest you read your scriptures and understand the nature of man.
It does not matter whether he has commited an actual act. His is still, by nature, a child of wrath and is altogether sinful.
and btw - if u want actual acts.
What is the first thing a baby does when he is delivered?
he crys...
Y
Yelsew
Guest
The sin of Adam is Disobedience of God's Law.
Disobedience is the first sin that every human commits. Prior to open disobedience, no children of men sin. There is no sin until there are rules, once the first rule is disobeyed, there is sin. It is in our nature to disobey authority, just as it was in Adam's nature.
That is one reason why there is so much legislative activity to abolish the Ten Commandments and any other "restrictive covenants". The philosophy is that if there are no rules, I cannot be accused of breaking the rules.
The law and the penalty given to Adam prior to Adam disobeying God.
Disobedience is the first sin that every human commits. Prior to open disobedience, no children of men sin. There is no sin until there are rules, once the first rule is disobeyed, there is sin. It is in our nature to disobey authority, just as it was in Adam's nature.
That is one reason why there is so much legislative activity to abolish the Ten Commandments and any other "restrictive covenants". The philosophy is that if there are no rules, I cannot be accused of breaking the rules.
ScottEmerson
Active Member
What did I say? I said, "Absolutely - the child needs a redeemer. But the child still has not sinned." Crying is not a sin - Jesus Christ himself cried - is that not evidence that crying is not a sin?
Y
Yelsew
Guest
A newborn infant cries for survival. Crying is the means that the human body uses for switchover from mother provided oxygen to normal outside the womb human breathing. Without hearing the infant cry, doctors get real panicky.
Infants cry out of fear. They just left their home of nine months, all wet and warm, with everything provided, to enter a world that is totally strange to them. Though helpless in nearly every sense of the word, they possess the means of letting mothers and caretakers know that something is not satisfactory. Of course without a handbook, the caregiver must attempt to ascertain what the unsatisfactory condition may be.
Until the child grows to the point of being able to comprehend what a rule is, the child cannot sin. But once the child deliberately disobeys a rule that it comprehends, the child becomes a sinner like every other human. How sad!
Infants cry out of fear. They just left their home of nine months, all wet and warm, with everything provided, to enter a world that is totally strange to them. Though helpless in nearly every sense of the word, they possess the means of letting mothers and caretakers know that something is not satisfactory. Of course without a handbook, the caregiver must attempt to ascertain what the unsatisfactory condition may be.
Until the child grows to the point of being able to comprehend what a rule is, the child cannot sin. But once the child deliberately disobeys a rule that it comprehends, the child becomes a sinner like every other human. How sad!
TheTravelingMinstrel
New Member
What did I say? I said, "Absolutely - the child needs a redeemer. But the child still has not sinned." Crying is not a sin - Jesus Christ himself cried - is that not evidence that crying is not a sin? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]regardless, he is still under the sin of adam and still needs a redeemer.
Don't be foolish and think otherwise. Read scripture to discover truth, not what makes logical sence to you.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
NO, Man is not under Adam's sin, Adam was merely the first of kind to sin, and his sin was disobedience of the Law. We all enter into sin by the same sin, disobedience of authority.
Yelsew, you are wrong here. Psalm 51:5 "I was concieved in sin and brought forth from iniquity" Translation is that we are sinners from birth. Romans tells us that we are sinful through the adamic line. That through one man, we have all known sin.
There is no mention of the "age of accountability in scripture. Only that of grace. Do babies go to heaven? I believe they do, but not because they are sinless and perfect. Augustine said that the reason babies are born small and weak is so they do not choke there mothers for milk. Babies go to heaven, I believe, because God is good. Incidentally, it is the same reason that you or I go to heaven too.
There is no mention of the "age of accountability in scripture. Only that of grace. Do babies go to heaven? I believe they do, but not because they are sinless and perfect. Augustine said that the reason babies are born small and weak is so they do not choke there mothers for milk. Babies go to heaven, I believe, because God is good. Incidentally, it is the same reason that you or I go to heaven too.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Yes, For all of David's wisdom, he did not have the answers either. You may believe that if you wish, but I believe there is another explanation. Please note, All mankind is of the Adamic line. There has not been another line on the face of the earth, even Jesus is of the Adamic line. Just as Adam sinned, we all sin. Just as Adam's sin is disobedience of God's Command (God being the Authority), our sin is disobedience of authority, and it happens when we are able to comprehend a rule, and then willfully disobey that rule. Just as God gave Adam a commandment to follow, even giving the penalty for breaking the commandment, each of us is given by our parents some rule, and we are told that we would be punished (spanked, timeout, nose in the corner, etc.) for breaking the rule. We break the rule! Maybe just to test the authority, but we do break the rule. Thus it is we sin in the same manner that Adam sinned! Of course we must consider that Adam was fully grown, never having had a childhood.
Yea! God is Good!
TheTravelingMinstrel
New Member
The verse says that he was born into sin. It's pretty basic stuff. All men are born sinners. This is milk
Are you telling us that the Bible has errors in it?? It appears that you have directly contradicted a clear statement of Scripture (however you interpret it) by saying that David was wrong when he wrote this.
Rom 5 directly contradicts you as well saying that all are sinners in Adam. You are treading dangerously close, if not actually into, heterodoxy. You have stooped a moral theory of the atonement, which makes sense with your moral theory of sin. Both are patently unbiblical.
Do you believe such a child needs a Redeemer? </font>[/QUOTE]Absolutely. But the child has still not sinned. </font>[/QUOTE]If the child is not a sinner, what is there to be redeemed from? Why does he need a redeemer if he hasn't sinned?
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Based on your interpretation, everything is possible!
I did not say that David was wrong, I said that David does not have the answers either. If you want to believe what David wrote, that is your prerogative. But what David said makes his parents sinners for having sex in which David was conceived. Though no court records exist to prove it, it should be noted that David was the youngest of the 8 males issued from David's parents who were obviously "legally married" under God and before witnesses and were in the HOLY STATE OF MATRIMONY!
Marriage was obviously God's plan from the beginning, so how is it that David was conceived in sin?
Because mankind was created with the capacity to sin, and because mankind exercise his free will to sin, mankind will sin. Therefore mankind needs a redeemer. It is God's will that none should perish, and He made the way for mankind to be redeemed 2000 years ago. It is up to us to believe it or not!
Not sure how this contributes.
That is not what David said at all. David is talking about himself. He was conceived a sinner, which is parallel with being brought forth in iniquity. He did not become a sinner after his first choice to disobey. You have misunderstood the passage.
David was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit who cannot lie. David is right; your understanding is flawed.