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Can God fail?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by npetreley, Aug 14, 2007.

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  1. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Quite a while back, someone claimed that God tries to save everyone but fails. Is it really possible for God to fail at anything? I believe it is impossible for God to fail at anything. God does not "try". His will is always accomplished 100%. However, God may have conflicting wills, and one will may trump another, according to his good pleasure. But the fact that God decides which will trumps another still means that God does not fail.

    I don't want this to degenerate into a free-will vs. election debate, so I will use another example: The problem of sin. Even if you don't agree at every point, I hope you will see the difference between this and "tries but fails".

    1. God desires that his creation be free of sin
    2. God desires to make his character and glory known
    3. God's character includes righteousness, love, wrath against unrighteousness, mercy, and more
    4. God cannot make some of his characterstics known without the existence of sin, since there is no need for mercy in a sinless creation, no need for wrath in a sinless creation, etc
    5. God allows sin to enter the creation (or creates sin, depending on your viewpoint) in order to make his attributes known

    In order for #5 to be true, God must compromise his desire that his creation be free of sin. In this scenario, God may eventually free the creation of sin, but he must allow it long enough to make his characteristics known.

    This is NOT the same thing as God wanting his creation to be sin-free, but failing to prevent sin from entering his creation. It is a matter of God's desire for his attributes to be known trumping his desire for his creation to be sin-free.

    I encourage you to plug this line of reasoning into the "God tries to save everyone but fails" claim, and see for yourself if it is a matter of God failing.

    Does anyone want to make a case for God trying but failing at anything?
     
    #1 npetreley, Aug 14, 2007
  2. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    My opinion is no God can not fail. But this OP made me think of a question I was asked once.
    " Is God able to make a rock that would be too heavy for Him to lift?"
     
    #2 Steven2006, Aug 14, 2007
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    The question itself is nonsense, though. It is a logical impossibility, and it has nothing to do with the capability of God.
     
    #3 npetreley, Aug 14, 2007
  4. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    So is your premise. God could have given every one of His creation His own mind and no one would ever sin. Thus, God could very well have avoided YOUR definition of "failing" if that is what He intended.

    skypair
     
    #4 skypair, Aug 14, 2007
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Whoever suggests that God can fail, does not understand who God is. It's that simple.
     
    #5 TCGreek, Aug 14, 2007
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I agree. He didn't fail at anything. He lays the plan of salvation out there. Take it or leave it. He gives a portion of truth to all, and lets them do with it what they will. He sincerely desires that all come to repentance, and none perish (His words)...but He is not failing at anything if this does not come to pass. This is why man has to be a moral agent in the likeness of God, with the ability to accept or reject in the same manner He does.
     
    #6 webdog, Aug 14, 2007
  7. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76 Well-Known Member
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    Mankind failed.

    God cannot fail.

    Nor can God lie.
     
    #7 Jkdbuck76, Aug 14, 2007
  8. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    How about, "Is God able to make a rock uproot and slam up side stupid people's head?"
     
    #8 SaggyWoman, Aug 14, 2007
  9. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    That wasn't very Christ-like. You must not be saved.

    Just kidding... I thought it was quite funny.
     
    #9 npetreley, Aug 14, 2007
  10. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    God can not fail, whoever said something like that said it to cover themselves and their wrong beliefs to show how their belief can still be true, by sacrficing truth about God. They do not understand God nor His written word.
     
    #10 donnA, Aug 14, 2007
  11. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher Active Member
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    No. God cannot fail. No way. Never. Can't happen. Will never happen.
     
    #11 SBCPreacher, Aug 14, 2007
  12. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    If you really think about it. God is the creator and controller of everything. It all exists at His pleasure. God is also perfect. So God can never fail, that would be impossible.
     
    #12 Steven2006, Aug 14, 2007
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Just for fun...if God made a rock that transcends all space, it wouldn't be able to be moved...as there would be no place and no room to move it even if it could be moved. :)
     
    #13 webdog, Aug 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2007
  14. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Does ANYONE call it "failure" that God's plan comes to fruition?? I don't think so.

    skypair
     
    #14 skypair, Aug 14, 2007
  15. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Huh? I'm not sure I understand you. Do you remember who it was who said God tries to save everyone but fails? ;)
     
    #15 npetreley, Aug 14, 2007
  16. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Maybe God planned to fail ? Predestinated Himself to failure ?
     
    #16 pinoybaptist, Aug 14, 2007
  17. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    like a snake

    Men saying God failed that all men are not saved is men trying to escape the truth of the scripture.

    If whosoever believes is not saved then God has failed, and He will not fail whosoever believes.

    He wants all men to be saved, but by His own word only whosoever believes shall not might, not maybe but shall be saved.

    This faith is proved by what we do.
     
    #17 psalms109:31, Aug 14, 2007
  18. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Then wouldn't He have succeeded in failing, and therefore didn't fail? Yikes, the paradox opened up a wormhole and sucked all my beanie babies into another dimension!
     
    #18 npetreley, Aug 14, 2007
  19. Bismarck

    Bismarck New Member

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    Can a mortal human mind comprehend the infinite magnitude of YHWH-God?
     
    #19 Bismarck, Aug 18, 2007
  20. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Blahahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh.

    O the conumdrum the arminian scheme is in on this one..

    God the Father: Son, I will that everyone ever not perish, but have everlasting life.

    God the Son: I will die for each and everyone, but I hope they will believe. (even those already in hell, I will die for them too)

    God the Spirit: I will draw and strive and work with them, but their wills are so strong.


    I think not.
     
    #20 ReformedBaptist, Aug 18, 2007
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