Can intelligent design also be explained without a creator?

[xdisciplex]

Is it possible to somehow find a plausible explanation for ID but at the same time denying a creator (God/space aliens or whatever could have created us)?
I don't think it's possible. Because order and information do not arrive out of nothing. If you argue that there is no creator but yet there is order in the universe then this would mean that there has to be some metaphysical supernatural force in the universe which guarantees all these things. You cannot explaind ID without a creator, or am I wrong? Do you know arguments for ID but against a creator?

 

[BobRyan]

That is the problem that atheists have with admiting that LIFE shows too much evidence of design to DENY intelligence "CLEARLY SEEN in the THINGS that have been MADE" Rom 1.

However - if you are "Stuck" having to "DENY that which is CLEARLY SEEN in the things that have been made" -- then you really have no other choice but to turn a blind eye to it EVEN though you have to admit that creating EVEN A SINGLE cell in the lab is STILL beyond our technology!

 

[xdisciplex]

I totally agree. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[billwald]

out of nothing

>Because order and information do not arrive out of nothing.

This phrase means that the topic is in actuality "first cause." There are only two answers to the problem of first cause, "God," and "Always was." All intermediate conditions can be reduced to "God," and "Always was."
There is not physical or logical way to choose between "God," and "Always was." It is a philosophical problem, not a scientific problem.

 

[BobRyan]

You can "Start" with the position "There is NO God" and then you NEED an "always was" and "happens by itself" answer no matter how many problems you encounter in measurable science trying to make that case.

 

[genesis12]

No. .......

 

[BobRyan]

ID merely admits to the most basic of ALL "invisible attributes" in the DESIGN of what has been MADE -- "intelligence".

In Romans 1 God states that this blatant fact can be seen by unbelieving pagans. He claims THEY "See CLEARLY the invisible attributes of God -- as they are SEEN in the things that have been made".

This is the most basic principle for all mankind that atheist must -- MUST reject! It is the Word of Truth that they insist all who follow atheist darwinist doctrines MUST reject.

And we see it on this very board!