Can people in Heaven see us here on Earth?

Hmmm. The Bible is not clear on the issue. Since the only people who know for sure are dead, I guess we won't know for sure until we die.

I'm reminded of Star Trek 4, where Dr McCoy wants to discuss Spock's death and coming back to life. Spock tells him that he wouldnt be able to discuss it with him "without a common frame of reference". McCoy's reply is "You mean I have to die to discuss your insights on death??"

 

I really, really hope not.

 

I really don't know--I sort of hope not, too.

But I believe that verse is speaking specifically about the OT saints who are witnesses TO us (their lives are a testimony of enduring faith), rather than about them being witnesses OF us.

[ September 10, 2002, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: russell55 ]

 

I think about this at times. My first husband was
only 29.5, on the dot, when he was killed; today,
his little girl turned 30. I wonder what it is like to
be a 29-year-old father to a 30-year-old and
what it is like to be a 29-year-old grandpa to a
13-year-old! 8o) I wonder if Pat knows he has
five grandchildren. I wonder if he met them
before I did.

I wonder if Pat knew how his two children grew
up, that they were a joy and great gifts to me. I
wonder if he knows that his little boy, age two
when Pat died, is a perfect image of him, with
even his whacked-out sense of humor, who
took up the same work as Pat did, sounds like
Pat, and uses the same expressive terms Pat
did, like "Aw, Guts!" when he is upset.

I wonder if he knows I am happy. If he knows
that I purposely did not remarry until I worked
a lot of things out. If he looks forward to
seeing me again. If he and my present hus-
band's wife have met and are friends.

And I don't know.

But there are times when I look up and ask our
God to just say hi to him for me. I ask Him to
give Pat some special blessing of His choice
once in a while. And I admit that I ask Him to
let Pat know that I still love him.

I hope that in eternity, we will all be a foursome.

 

Revelation 21
4And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.

In heaven there is no sorrow, right? And even though it's a nice thought to think that your loved ones can still see you and other family members, as if they are watching over you somehow, wouldn't it only bring them sorrow in several ways? I know that if I could see all the trials of my loved ones after I had passed away, it would probably bring me sorrow.
Sue

 

You are taking that verse way out of context... I don't know the answer to your question, but the verse you quote has nothing to do with it.

Eric

 

so agree with Suelyn.
Is it because I am English that I think some of the comments are so way out

 

Those who have lost a loved one often try to
hold to any little thought that they can, just to
try to have a connection, even when they know
that "connection" is imaginary. For myself, no, I
don't really believe that Pat looks down and sees
us here, but I can wish. 8o) The thought is
pleasant and comforting.

The study of the dead in our Lord is one I have
never undertaken; perhaps I should, but I have
actualy chosen ignorance of it. Why? Because
not knowing is not a salvific issue, and ignor-
ance, in this case, is bliss. Why? Because as
long as I don't KNOW, then I can imagine that
he thinks of his children, and of me, and that he
knows his grandchildren.

So come on, people! Don't burst my bubble of
chosen ignorance!

[ September 10, 2002, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]

 

I remember one of the questions Dr. Patterson was asked up here was on this very subject... and he basically said that there's no easy answer... much like the first answer here... without the referance to Star Trek LOL

He gave us a few different arguements, but he didn't say which one was right.

 

That must have been a new experience for him Are you sure we're talking about Dr. Paige Patterson?

Joshua

 

That must have been a new experience for him Are you sure we're talking about Dr. Paige Patterson?

Joshua</font>[/QUOTE]Joshua,

That was a cheap shot. I have heard Dr. Patterson on several occasions in Chapel here at Southeastern give various interpretations of a difficult passage and then say that he does not know which is "correct." For example, the question of whether or not babies and very young children who die go to heaven. He may have an opinion regarding the interpretation in question; however, he makes it clear that others exist and could be just as valid as his opinion. A little balance man, if you please.

 

Lighten up, BbII - it was a joke. We don't see enough of that around here as it is.

 

Suelyn quoted Revelation 21
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.

I don't think this passage is relevant to the discussion as it occurs at the end of the millennium. I believe there are tears in heaven, and regrets. That said, I think there must be some correspondence/communication between heaven and earth. for example, tribulation saints know that God has not avenged their martyrdom and seem to be aware of events on earth (Rev 6:10). How much departed loved ones know or don't know cannot be defined, but I do not think they are completely ignorant of events unfolding upon the earth.

 

I believe we want to understand Heaven and eternity on our terms. We can't help but to have a simplistic image of such an awesome concept.

To imagine our loved ones looking down on us CAN be soothing. Or scary...and I believe that many of our attitudes on this issue were shaped as small children. I still picture God in army gear, crouched among the clouds, ready to defend us from the enemy, bigger than life. I don't know where I got the association, but it is an image that has comforted me. Don't read too much into it...

In my mind, Heaven is still shiny and fruit is available in sconces on the wall. (My mom said we would not NEED food in Heaven).

I don't know where all the people are.

I believe that Suekie's quote from Revelation assures us that what we find will be wholly good, and that the saved can look forward with joy to whatever awaits us.

 

I believe Hebrews 12 IS the answer. It follows the list of OT men of faith and chapter 11 closes saying,

These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Chapter 12's FIRST word is THEREFORE -- referring back to chapter 11's closing remarks.

Therefore...what?

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

The ONLY people talked about who could possibly be these witnesses are those who are dead!

So then the question would be, why should they be able to see us and not anyone since them?

It is very probable that yes, we can be seen by those in heaven. It gives us all the more reason to focus on Christ and do the very best we can here in terms of trusting and obeying HIM.

What we are absolutely forbidden to do, however, is try to contact the spirits of any dead. We are NOT told whether or not they can see us.

About the Revelation reference to no more tears -- that is in the new creation. We know the angels themselves join in rejoicing when a sinner repents. They can see. But if they can rejoice, can they not also be saddened by the opposite?

 

BBII - I think that was far from a cheap shot. It was a little dig, but made good-naturedly. I'm sure that Dr. Patterson's pastoral personality is every bit as kind and gracious as you've described elsewhere (as I've discovered Nelson Price's to be). Nevertheless, his political persona does not reflect the perspective of someone who is open to multiple interpretations of anything. Nor have I known of him to extend his pastoral compassion to liberals of "moderates."

Nevertheless, it was (as already noted) a joke. That's all. I'm sorry that it offended you.

Joshua

[ September 11, 2002, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Rev. Joshua ]