Can We Be Perfect?

[Brother Bob]

Are Christians equal with God?
Sounds all so familiar? As we move back down through the corridors of time and remind you of the
very first created being who ever dared to think such a though! "How thou art fallen from heaven, O
Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground....For thou hast said in thine heart, I will
ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit also upon the mount of the
congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the
most High." [Isaiah 14:12-14]


The God of the Bible through His prophet Isaiah makes it abundantly clear that He alone is the only
true and living God, and their is none like unto Him, and their are no other 'gods' or 'little gods'
beside Him. It is written "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen;
that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed,
neither shall there be after me." [Isa 43:10] It is written in 1 Cor 8:5 "For though there be that are called
gods, whether in heaven or in earth, [as there be gods many, and lords many,] but to us [Christians]
there is but one God the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by
whom are all things, and we by him." The only true and living God says "I am the first, and I am the
last; and beside me there is no God....Is their a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."
[Isa 44:6-8] and again "I am the Lord, and their is none else, there is no God beside me....I am the Lord,
and their is none else....and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none
beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and their is none
else" [Isa 45:1-22] and again "Remember the former things of old: for I am God; and there is none else; I
am God and there is none like me;" [Isa 46:9]

 

[Bro Tony]

Are Christians equal with God?
Sounds all so familiar? As we move back down through the corridors of time and remind you of the
very first created being who ever dared to think such a though! "How thou art fallen from heaven, O
Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground....For thou hast said in thine heart, I will
ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit also upon the mount of the
congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the
most High." [Isaiah 14:12-14]


The God of the Bible through His prophet Isaiah makes it abundantly clear that He alone is the only
true and living God, and their is none like unto Him, and their are no other 'gods' or 'little gods'
beside Him. It is written "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen;
that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed,
neither shall there be after me." [Isa 43:10] It is written in 1 Cor 8:5 "For though there be that are called
gods, whether in heaven or in earth, [as there be gods many, and lords many,] but to us [Christians]
there is but one God the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by
whom are all things, and we by him." The only true and living God says "I am the first, and I am the
last; and beside me there is no God....Is their a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."
[Isa 44:6-8] and again "I am the Lord, and their is none else, there is no God beside me....I am the Lord,
and their is none else....and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none
beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and their is none
else" [Isa 45:1-22] and again "Remember the former things of old: for I am God; and there is none else; I
am God and there is none like me;" [Isa 46:9]

Bro Bob,

I have not heard anyone in here say they were equal with God. The statement has consistantly been that in Jesus we are perfect in God's sight. Do you believe that?

Bro Tony

 

[DHK]

Are Christians equal with God?

Putting words in peoples' mouths is the same as slander. Do you like to do this? Who said that they were equal to God? Can you provide a quote? An exact quote of those words!
I said one must be as holy as God is holy.
Peter said Be ye holy:

1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

God requires holiness. Without holiness no man shall see God.
God will not allow any thing that defiles into heaven.

How do you think that that holiness is attained?

 

[Brother Bob]

Bro Bob,

I have not heard anyone in here say they were equal with God. The statement has consistantly been that in Jesus we are perfect in God's sight. Do you believe that?

Bro Ton

Inwardly yes, the part that is born of a incorruptible seed and cannot die.

They said they were equal with God in Holiness!

 

[Brother Bob]

Putting words in peoples' mouths is the same as slander. Do you like to do this? Who said that they were equal to God? Can you provide a quote? An exact quote of those words!
I said one must be as holy as God is holy.
Peter said Be ye holy: (In conversation in this case)

1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (Peter was telling us to strive towards perfection which will take a life time.)

God might call us perfect in a sense but not perfect as He is or Holy as He is for He said our righteousness is as filthy rags. I think you quoted that before yourself, but it don't fit too good here.

God requires holiness. Without holiness no man shall see God. (Have you seen Him yet!)
God will not allow any thing that defiles into heaven. (That is why you can't go except the inward man as I said before at death.)

How do you think that that holiness is attained?__A life time of Living for the Lord and a resurrection of the saints_______
DHK

I never put words in no one's mouth and was very careful not too. I was posting a scripture telling fellow posters not to go to far with the being as Holy as God thing.

I have posted what you said and never added to or took away. You are good at calling me names, such as murderer which certainly is slander and then falsly accuse me.

I am as holy and perfect as Jesus is. DHK:

That is what you said and is what I have posted. If its slander, its your own words.

1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (In conversation in this case and Peter meant to strive to be perfect, I know you are not perfect in conversation, you already proved that, and neither am I.)

square your quote with this quote. That is where you get in trouble not knowing it is the inward part that is considered "perfect" before God and not the entire man himself. You are the one who said you were as Holy as God is, not me. I never in my entire life ran into a man who thought he was as Holy as God. That is what Lucifer wanted but didn't reach it, you say you already got there.

Brother Bob: Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

You need to quit calling us all kinds of names and then be so thin skinned when we quote your very words. Also, I try to add IMO all the time for I understand I have a right to give my opinion.

 

[DHK]

You need to quit calling us all kinds of names and then be so thin skinned when we quote your very words. Also, I try to add IMO all the time for I understand I have a right to give my opinion.

I don't call you names.
I said one must be as holy as God is in order to enter heaven, for nothing defiled can enter into heaven.
You said that I said (or someone here) that I must be equal with God.
That is slander. No one said that. No one even came close to saying that. If you can't understand the theology I am sorry for that. But one cannot enter into heaven unless they have the righteousness of Christ; unless they have the holiness of Christ which Christ gives them at salvation, which in effect makes them as holy as God, in their standing before God.
Notice, it is in their standing before God that one is as holy as God, not in their walk before God. I have emphasized this continually, but it seems to go right over your head.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am as holy and perfect as Jesus is. DHK:

You own words, nothing about entering Heaven. You said you "are" as Holy and Perfect as Jesus, not going to be.

You called me a murderer among other names.

You exact words and if its some kind of theology I never heard of it.

You are starting to emphasize that now but not when you started. I don't blame you, I would get away from it too.

I really could care less about you calling me names. Just don't jump on me for posting your exact words back at you.

And you can have the last word, I am through with this thread.

 

[DHK]

You own words, nothing about entering Heaven. You said you "are" as Holy and Perfect as Jesus, not going to be.

I am as holy as God in my standing before him because I have been justified (just as if I have never sinned), clothed in the righteousness of Christ. That is my standing before God.
I am not perfect in my walk with God, far from it. In fact, as I told you before, I am a sinner capable of any sin that man is capable of doing, and so are you. But my sin is under the blood. All my sin, the future ones included.

You called me a murderer among other names.

If you have ever been angry at someone, Jesus says that you are a murderer.
If you have ever held hatred for anyone John says you are a murdererer.
I am guessing that since you are not perfect you have committed the sin of murder. I am guessing that all of mankind has, except for Jesus, for he alone was perfect. Or do you claim sinless percection?

You exact words and if its some kind of theology I never heard of it.

It is called Biblical theology. It is the only kind I know. It is from the Bible.

I really could care less about you calling me names. Just don't jump on me for posting your exact words back at you.

That is the problem Bob, you weren't quoting my exact words, you were stating something I never said. It is heresy or even blasphemy to say that one is equal to God, and I never even came close to saying that.

 

[Ztheberean]

Hi there everyone,

I am happy to see that you took the time to look up the word perfect. I just want to add on what you have come up with for your edification. Now that we know that we need to be perfect, the question is HOW do we become perfect?

The word perfect is used 99 times in the bible, and I use the blueletterbible.org to do word studies which is very easy to use. We can only go into the Scriptures to find answers so that we would be edified by the word of God, rather than our opinions. The verse that was used in question Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

That word perfect is strongs # 5046 which means brought to it’s end, finished, complete.

The word perfection is strongs # 5047 which means moral and spiritual perfection.

In Hebrews it speaks that we need to lay the foundation of repentance for true faith so that God might permit us to go on to perfection. (Heb 6:1&3) We cannot do the will of God without the knowledge of this doctrine (Jn 7:17); And we are NOT to receive anyone who does not bring/teach this doctrine because they do not have the Father and the Son, and we will partake in their evil deeds. (2Jn 1:9-11) This is why we need to learn what repentance means so that we would bring forth the fruits of repentance, without which we will be cast into the fire. (No matter what we believe. (Matt 9:13-12, Lk 3:8-9) This is obviously a process that cannot be done instantly. This is also known as God creating us in Christ Jesus so that we could do good works, so that we would not boast (that we did it ourselves) because it is a gift from God. (Eph 2:10-8) This gift is God’s power working in us by His grace so that we would minister these things unto others. (Eph 3:7) This process is also known as “our” crucifixion with Christ nevertheless we live, but not us (ie our will) but Christ in us, and the life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of God who loved us enough to give Himself for us, without which (ie our crucifixion with Christ) we can only frustrate the grace of God. (Gal 2:20-21) A willingness to go through this is acceptable unto God, because He first gives us a willingness and then causes us to perform for His good pleasure. (1Cor 8:12, Phil 2:13) The question is, have we asked God to crucify us so that we could truly live for Him?

This is how we can have hope, because after we have been freed by Christ from the bondage of sin, we can patiently wait on the Spirit to make us righteous and loving, so that we can go on to serve others in love. (Gal 5:1, 5-6 & 13) I hope that no one is hindering you from obeying this truth? (Gal 5:7)

What is perfection? The ability to love (Col 3:14); meaning; love our enemies, and do good to those that hate us, and despitefully use us (Matt 5:44); This is how we know that we have been made perfect as our Father is perfect. (Matt 5:48)

Love can rejoice in the truth that reveals grace,

Zianna
1Cor 13:6 with Col 1:6
__________________
Love can rejoice in the truth that reveals grace,

Ztheberean
1Cor 13:6 with Col 1:6

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Can we be perfect? Absolutely! By being taken up in the Lamb standing as though slain.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Berean:

"He first gives us a willingness and then causes us to perform for His good pleasure. (1Cor 8:12, Phil 2:13) The question is, have we asked God to crucify us so that we could truly live for Him?"

GE:

Are you not cotradicting yourself by your last question? With the willingness God had given we as it were had already asked Him to crucify us so that we could truly live for Him.

 

[DQuixote]

Thank you, Tony & Amy & DHK for hanging in there with the right stuff.

:thumbs:

 

[Brother Bob]

You just proved my point about perfection. Thank you,

Pro 6:14Frowardness [is] in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.