Can We Be Perfect?

[Brother Bob]

Not the whole man you are not. You are living in a corruptible body and have sinned where Jesus had no sin.by BOB?

Wait .... .....You mean Bob thinks a Christian can still sin? Wow! He must have been doing some studying over the weekend.

You are insinuating that I didn't think you could sin and that is a total lie but what I would expect from the crayon boy.

 

[Brother Bob]

Like Tony said:
I am as holy and perfect as Jesus is. I stand in his righteousness, justified by Him, and declared sinless in the sight of God. My sins he remembers no more, even the future ones.

No, I don't believe you DHK; matter of fact, I believe very little you have said. The following scripture tells us when we shall be like Jesus.

This is the first time I have ever heard anyone compare themselves equal with Jesus.


1Jo 3:2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

teleioV
teleios
tel'-i-os
from teloV - telos 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun,

with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect.

Also in Old English, perfect means "unmigrated" which means a "perfect brat".

To use "complete" has to have added ( in growth, mental and moral character) of which I doubt any man has reached.

It could be "perfect" though and that is what the translators thought it was and that is why they used it.

I can see where the word complete could be used as perfect but only if you added to complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.) On the other hand when the translators used "perfect" it will stand alone in Greek, so I would imagine that is why they used it.

When you say the flesh cannot sin you deny the scriptures. (which is not surprising) IMO

Rom 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh is controlled by the carnal mind of which cannot serve God in no way and those who walk after the flesh shall die.

Rom 8:7Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:10And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

If you want to live after the flesh, go ahead but don't claim to be "perfect", and especially not equal with Jesus Christ. So, now we know what DHK thinks he is, the same as Jesus. I think. IMO

 

[Shiloh]

#21
Brother Bob
Location: KY
Posts: 7,185
Who is the crayon boy?:laugh:
__________________
Brother Bob,
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;Smileys ---My Web Site

 

[Brother Bob]

DHK: I am as holy and perfect as Jesus is

Does anyone else think they are as perfect and Holy as Jesus Christ? Just a question.


1Jo 3:2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[donnA]

no...........

 

[Bro Tony]

Does anyone else think they are as perfect and Holy as Jesus Christ? Just a question.


1Jo 3:2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

In Christ, Yes!!! The Scripture says that I am made complete (perfect) in Christ.

Bro Tony

 

[Brother Bob]

Scripture please...............

Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

 

[Bro Tony]

Scripture please...............

Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Colossians 2:9-11 (New King James Version)
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.


Philippians 3:8-10 (New King James Version)
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,


I really like these.

Bro Tony

 

[Brother Bob]

Where do either one of those scriptures say you are Holy and perfect as Jesus Christ.

teleioV
teleios
tel'-i-os
from teloV - telos 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun,

To use the word complete it has to be in conjunction with various applications, as labor, growth, mental and moral character.

You can use the word "perfect" as a stand alone as in KJV.

I would be careful saying that you are as Holy and perfect as Jesus Christ.


Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.


I don't see where your scriptures say you are already perfect in the flesh. I told you when I God considered it to be the Heart and if you go back and read the scripture you gave it talks of the circumcism of the "heart". Sorry, but you are not as Holy and Perfect as Christ. You do believe in taking all scripture don't you? Read again Phl 3:12.

 

[Bro Tony]

Where do either one of those scriptures say you are Holy and perfect as Jesus Christ.

teleioV
teleios
tel'-i-os
from teloV - telos 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun,

To use the word complete it has to be in conjunction with various applications, as labor, growth, mental and moral character.

You can use the word "perfect" as a stand alone as in KJV.

Look specifically at the Philippians verses, "not having my own righteousness..." who's righteousness do we have? If we have Jesus', are we nor as perfect in God's sight as He is? And if we are not, I am not sure you or I will ever get to go to heaven.

Bro Tony

 

[Brother Bob]

Look specifically at the Philippians verses, "not having my own righteousness..." who's righteousness do we have? If we have Jesus', are we nor as perfect in God's sight as He is? And if we are not, I am not sure you or I will ever get to go to heaven.

Bro Tony

No Brother Tony, we are not, and will not be in this life.

Do you believe Jesus can or could sin?

Do you believe you can sin?

That should answer your question.
Now I think you should work towards that santification until you die. Thats what I am going to do.

Some on here spent at least 2 weeks saying they can sin any sin, adultery, homosexuality, steal, kill etc. They said they could die in the act of adultery and go to Heaven, which they admit is sin. Now they say they could do those kind of sins and have the nerve to say they are as Holy and Perfect as Jesus Christ.

I always feel so unworthy, I can't imagine someone putting themselves on the same plain as Jesus.

 

[Bro Tony]

.

I always feel so unworthy, I can't imagine someone putting themselves on the same plain as Jesus.

Me too Bob. I am unworthy. The only way I can be acceptable to God is through His Son. And Christ work on the cross is all I need to be made right with God. I am made righteous by His act. I cannot cheapen that complete sacrifice by saying it left me less than acceptable to God. Of course He is at work in me making my walk more like His everyday, but at the moment of salvation I was justified in the eyes of the Father and that makes me perfect in His eyes. Not boasting of my goodness, but bragging on the finished and complete work of Jesus in reconciling me with the Father. All praise is His and there is nothing I can add to His finished work.

Bro Tony

PS--I would be careful about saying you are working toward sanctification. Paul said to the Galatians..."are you so foolish to believe that what has begun by faith is completed by the flesh." I could work until Jesus comes back, but it is not my work that brings sanctification, but His work in me.

 

[Brother Bob]

Oh, I don't believe I am working towards sanctification. I don't believe I said that and if I did, it is not what I believe. I certainly believe it came with justification but I do think its a continous thing because of the corruptible body we live in. I hope you understand that I believe the part that was born of God and that was not the whole man for the scripture says the creature itself shall be delivered also from the bondage of corrruption unto the glorious liberties of the children of God. I am one who believe the inside has been cleansed up and made to walk a newness of life in Christ Jesus and has the mind of Christ but that is not the carnal mind, for to be carnal minded is death.

I don't know if you caught it or just passed it by but I asked you if you could sin and if Jesus could sin which shows the difference between you and Christ. We have a ways to go yet as a whole person. Don't know how you feel but I believe a part of us will go to be with Jesus at death until the resurrection. That is the part that is perfect and born of an incorruptible seed, the word of God.

It bothers me for someone to say they are as Holy and Perfect as Jesus Christ. No one was found worthy to die for the sins of man and I don't think there is anyone worthy now, except Him.

 

[DHK]

No Brother Tony, we are not, and will not be in this life.

Do you believe Jesus can or could sin?

Do you believe you can sin?

That should answer your question.
Now I think you should work towards that santification until you die. Thats what I am going to do.

Some on here spent at least 2 weeks saying they can sin any sin, adultery,

Really confused now, aren't you Bob?
1. Yes I am as holy as Jesus is--in my standing before him. For he has justified me--made me just as if I never sin. Thus when God looks down upon me he sees me clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. It is not DHK he sees; rather the righteousness of Jesus Christ. That righteousness covers all my sin. However, that is in relation to my salvation only.

Jesus cannot nor could never sin.

Yes I believe I can sin, as you also believe you can sin.

I believe that any believer can fall into sin, even the sin of adultery or even worse. David did. And we are no better than he is, even though we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Peter denied the Lord three times. You may make the excuse that he wasn's saved. But that is bogus, for he was. You may make the excuse that it was before Pentecost, but so what. The fact is that he didn't have to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit, he had Jesus (God in the flesh) right by his side for those three years of his ministry. He had one of the greatest priviliges that any man could ever head. Remeber the words of Jesus to Thomas:

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

What a privilege Thomas had, Jesus was pointing out. Peter had the same privilege, and much more, for he was in that inner group of the three closest disciples near to Christ--the three that went up to witness the transfiguration. He had witnessed many things and heard many things that even the other disciples had not seen nor heard. He was blessed indeed. Remember that he was the only one of the twelve to have walked on water! Peter walked by faith. He had his eyes on Christ.
And yet in spite of all of that, in the end he denied the Lord three times. How could it be? How could he have failed so miserably!

It is a good example to what extent each one of us may stoop to? Will you also deny Christ? It is a possibility. It is possible for you to commit murder, to commit adultery, to sin in any way known to mankind. You are fallible. Don't say that you cannot sin, for the Bible says you can, even the sins that are in the Ten Commandments. We pray that we don't and won't. God forbid that we should. But it is always a possibility that one will. And when a fellow believer does we cannot condemn him immediately and say that he is not saved, which you have been doing on this thread. For the same may someday happen to you. All sin is the same and brings the same condemnation in God's sight. In man's sight no--there many be different consequences. But in God's sight it is all the same--it is a transgression of His law.

 

[Brother Bob]

Really confused now, aren't you Bob?
1. Yes I am as holy as Jesus is--in my standing before him. For he has justified me--made me just as if I never sin. Thus when God looks down upon me he sees me clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. It is not DHK he sees; rather the righteousness of Jesus Christ. That righteousness covers all my sin. However, that is in relation to my salvation only.

Yes, there is some confusion alright, just look at the following statements of yours.

DHK:
Jesus cannot nor could never sin.

Yes I believe I can sin, as you also believe you can sin.


I am as holy and perfect as Jesus is. DHK:

What a privilege Thomas had, Jesus was pointing out. Peter had the same privilege, and much more, for he was in that inner group of the three closest disciples near to Christ--the three that went up to witness the transfiguration. He had witnessed many things and heard many things that even the other disciples had not seen nor heard. He was blessed indeed. Remember that he was the only one of the twelve to have walked on water! Peter walked by faith. He had his eyes on Christ.
And yet in spite of all of that, in the end he denied the Lord three times. How could it be? How could he have failed so miserably!

It is a good example to what extent each one of us may stoop to? Will you also deny Christ? It is a possibility. It is possible for you to commit murder, to commit adultery, to sin in any way known to mankind. You are fallible. Don't say that you cannot sin, for the Bible says you can, even the sins that are in the Ten Commandments. We pray that we don't and won't. God forbid that we should. But it is always a possibility that one will. And when a fellow believer does we cannot condemn him immediately and say that he is not saved, which you have been doing on this thread. For the same may someday happen to you. All sin is the same and brings the same condemnation in God's sight. In man's sight no--there many be different consequences. But in God's sight it is all the same--it is a transgression of His law.
__________________
DHK

You say you are as Holy and Perfect as Christ and then tell how low you can stoop. You say you can commit murder, adultery, any sin known unto mankind but you are Holy and Perfect as Jesus Christ. No wonder you and I can't do any good talking scripture when you believe such. IMO

Why would you say that you are as Holy and Perfect as Christ but are subject to commit all those sins, knowing that He can't sin. In all my years in serving the Lord, I have never heard anyone say such a thing that he could commit any sin known to mankind but still he is as Holy and Perfect as our Lord.

I wonder how many will support you in this DHK; Scares me to hear some of the beliefs on here.

 

[dcorbett]

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matt 5:48

I would like to hear your comments on this using the Scriptures, rather than our opinions...

DHK gave you your first answer, and it was so right!!!

Debbie Mc

 

[Brother Bob]

How many more feel they are as Holy and Perfect as Jesus Christ.

He was the only one found worthy to die for our sins and now you are His equal?

Scripture says you are not but who takes the scripture anymore. IMO


Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
__________________

 

[DHK]

Why would you say that you are as Holy and Perfect as Christ but are subject to commit all those sins, knowing that He can't sin. In all my years in serving the Lord, I have never heard anyone say such a thing that he could commit any sin known to mankind but still he is as Holy and Perfect as our Lord.

I am perfect in my standing before God; for Christ has justified me and clothed me in his righteousness. He did that when I was saved.
I am not perfect in the life that I live. Every day I sin. Every day I need to go to the Lord and confess that sin (1John 1:9) and obtain forgiveness. This does not affect my salvation--my standing before God (which is perfect, righteous and holy). But it does affect my fellowship with God. Sin will break the fellowship I have with my Savior. Confession of sin will make it right and restore it again.

When David confessed his sin before the Lord, he prayed: "Restore unto me the joy of my salvation. Fellowship with God was broken; not salvation itself. His joy was lost, not his salvation.

Psalm 66:18 "If I regard iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me." It does not say that if there is sin in my heart I will lose my salvation, but that I will lose my fellowship. God will not hear my prayers until I confess that sin to him and obtain forgiveness. Thus my walk with God must be restored. That has nothing to do with my standing with God which is always righteous and holy before him. I am eternally secure before him.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am perfect in my standing before God; for Christ has justified me and clothed me in his righteousness. He did that when I was saved.
I am not perfect in the life that I live. Every day I sin. Every day I need to go to the Lord and confess that sin (1John 1:9) and obtain forgiveness. This does not affect my salvation--my standing before God (which is perfect, righteous and holy). But it does affect my fellowship with God. Sin will break the fellowship I have with my Savior. Confession of sin will make it right and restore it again.

And so we begin to change our tale. IMO. Don't get me wrong for that is a far cry from what you posted before. I am as holy and perfect as Jesus is. DHK:

When David confessed his sin before the Lord, he prayed: "Restore unto me the joy of my salvation. Fellowship with God was broken; not salvation itself. His joy was lost, not his salvation.

Psalm 66:18 "If I regard iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me." It does not say that if there is sin in my heart I will lose my salvation, but that I will lose my fellowship. God will not hear my prayers until I confess that sin to him and obtain forgiveness. Thus my walk with God must be restored. That has nothing to do with my standing with God which is always righteous and holy before him. I am eternally secure before him.
__________________
DHK
I

Would the Lord do this?

Good to know we have some that could fill in for the Lord if He gets tired of sitting on the right hand of God. Also, if we needed someone to die for some more sins, we got someone now. IMO

Yes I am as holy as Jesus is. Yes I believe I can sin, as you also believe you can sin.

I believe that any believer can fall into sin, even the sin of adultery or even worse. DHK;

What a contradiction!!!!! What is more amazing is that you probably get an "amen" for it.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am perfect in my standing before God; for Christ has justified me and clothed me in his righteousness. He did that when I was saved.
I am not perfect in the life that I live. Every day I sin. Every day I need to go to the Lord and confess that sin (1John 1:9) and obtain forgiveness. This does not affect my salvation--my standing before God (which is perfect, righteous and holy). But it does affect my fellowship with God. Sin will break the fellowship I have with my Savior. Confession of sin will make it right and restore it again.

This is so much better DHK; I am glad you posted this one. I don't completely agree but it sure better than you being as Holy and Perfect as Jesus Himself.