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can We "Unbreak" The Sealing of the Holy Spirit?
- Thread starter DaChaser1
- Start date
Once Saved, Always Saved
God puts us spiritually into the body of Christ, we do not put ourselves in. Then God seals us in Christ by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit such that we are in Christ and Christ is in us.
All this is accomplished by God for God's purpose. When God puts us spiritually in Christ, we arise in Christ a new creation, for we have undergone the circumcision of Christ where our body of flesh (sin penalty?) has been removed. Then, according to 1 Peter 1:3-5 God keeps us, as in a locked cell, by protecting our faith. Thus our faith in Christ and devotion to Christ will not waver once we are actually born again. Therefore, those who say "Lord Lord" but the Lord never knew were never saved, teaching that profession does not equate with salvation. But when God credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5,24, He puts us in Christ, the sanctifying work of the Spirit, and pledges to keep us with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit forever.
The scriptural evidence for once actually saved, its settled (OASIS) is overwhelming.
Yes, there are loss of salvation passages but they all refer to loss of rewards, but even those who backslide or sidetrack their ministry still enter heaven as one escaping from a fire.
Does God allow us Free Will enough to "undo" His sealing work?
That God can keep us saved, but still allows free will to 'walk away?"
God puts us spiritually into the body of Christ, we do not put ourselves in. Then God seals us in Christ by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit such that we are in Christ and Christ is in us.
All this is accomplished by God for God's purpose. When God puts us spiritually in Christ, we arise in Christ a new creation, for we have undergone the circumcision of Christ where our body of flesh (sin penalty?) has been removed. Then, according to 1 Peter 1:3-5 God keeps us, as in a locked cell, by protecting our faith. Thus our faith in Christ and devotion to Christ will not waver once we are actually born again. Therefore, those who say "Lord Lord" but the Lord never knew were never saved, teaching that profession does not equate with salvation. But when God credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5,24, He puts us in Christ, the sanctifying work of the Spirit, and pledges to keep us with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit forever.
The scriptural evidence for once actually saved, its settled (OASIS) is overwhelming.
Yes, there are loss of salvation passages but they all refer to loss of rewards, but even those who backslide or sidetrack their ministry still enter heaven as one escaping from a fire.
Last edited by a moderator:
Christos doulos
New Member
Does God allow us Free Will enough to "undo" His sealing work?
That God can keep us saved, but still allows free will to 'walk away?"
My friend. If we do not have the power to save ourselves then we do not have the power to unsave ourselves, and if we did then there can be no coming back.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Does God allow us Free Will enough to "undo" His sealing work?
That God can keep us saved, but still allows free will to 'walk away?"
Great questions and thread which will lend itself to the dismantling of the teachings of Arminianism and expose its many errors.
In Arminian and some unnamed non-cal theologies the will of man can and does, within their framework of thinking, trump eternal security, and supplant even Jesus words in John 10:28.
Knowing some AoG theologians, pastors, students, I have had the privilege to ask some to elaborate on loss of salvation within the text of John 10:28 that "nothing can take us out of His hand." A typical answer is "Yes, nothing can, but YOU can."
So in this errant theology we have man supplanting even the power of God in salvation. This shows how the false doctrine of freewill is deficient and fallacious, and in its extent even goes against the Sovereignty of God.
Some arms will claim they accept eternal security, but they still embrace the false teachings of freewill. Any Arminian claiming they accept eternal security has adjusted Jacobus Arminius' teachings to do so, and are not truly Arminian.
In the Second Synod of Dordrecht, those Armininans there present, argued as followers of the late Jacobus Arminius (1609) for an ability of man to provide by his own will a lapse in grace (to lose salvation by choice), which they presented as points taken from Jacobus Arminius (Jakob Hermanszoon) theology.
Such a belief in a lapse of grace perhaps brings some to falsely accuse Calvinists as being brought to heaven kicking and screaming (because, such a one can refuse it later on) even though the same may not teach loss of salvation, yet this same thought is carried into their adjusted Arminian theology, and such false statements are brought against those said to be "Calvinists." In this we can see where specious teachings such as these come from, again, beginning in their teachings that man can will himself out of salvation.
There are many other errors and specious teachings that have taken off from the teachings of Arminianism and these have a profound negative effect upon the church and buffer some extreme positions which we see today.
- Peace
Last edited by a moderator:
God puts us spiritually into the body of Christ, we do not put ourselves in. Then God seals us in Christ by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit such that we are in Christ and Christ is in us.
All this is accomplished by God for God's purpose. When God puts us spiritually in Christ, we arise in Christ a new creation, for we have undergone the circumcision of Christ where our body of flesh (sin penalty?) has been removed. Then, according to 1 Peter 1:3-5 God keeps us, as in a locked cell, by protecting our faith. Thus our faith in Christ and devotion to Christ will not waver once we are actually born again. Therefore, those who say "Lord Lord" but the Lord never knew were never saved, teaching that profession does not equate with salvation. But when God credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5,24, He puts us in Christ, the sanctifying work of the Spirit, and pledges to keep us with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit forever.The scriptural evidence for once actually saved, its settled (OASIS) is overwhelming.
Yes, there are loss of salvation passages but they all refer to loss of rewards, but even those who backslide or sidetrack their ministry still enter heaven as one escaping from a fire.
based upon that part of faith being credited to us for/as rightious act...
Are we saved by God, or by our personal faith in Christ?
What is the basis for it?
Great questions and thread which will lend itself to the dismantling of the teachings of Arminianism and expose its many errors.
In Arminian and some unnamed non-cal theologies the will of man can and does, within their framework of thinking, trump eternal security, and supplant even Jesus words in John 10:28.
Knowing some AoG theologians, pastors, students, I have had the privilege to ask some to elaborate on loss of salvation within the text of John 10:28 that "nothing can take us out of His hand." A typical answer is "Yes, nothing can, but YOU can."
So in this errant theology we have man supplanting even the power of God in salvation. This shows how the false doctrine of freewill is deficient and fallacious, and in its extent even goes against the Sovereigny of God.
Some arms will claim they accept eternal security, but they still embrace the false teachings of freewill. Any Arminian claiming they accept eternal security has adjusted Jacobus Arminius' teachings to do so, and are not truly Arminian.
In the Second Synod of Dordrecht, those Armininans there present, argued as followers of the late Jacobus Arminius (1609) for an ability of man to provide by his own will a lapse in grace (to lose salvation by choice), which they presented as points taken from Jacobus Arminius (Jakob Hermanszoon) theology.
Such a belief in a lapse of grace perhaps brings some to falsely accuse Calvinists as being brought to heaven kicking and screaming (because, such a one can refuse it later on) even though the same may not teach loss of salvation, yet this same thought is carried into their adjusted Arminian theology, and such false statements are brought against those said to be "Calvinists." In this we can see where specious teachings such as these come from, again, beginning in their teachings that man can will himself out of salvation.
There are many other errors and specious teachings that have taken off from the the teachings of Arminianism and these have a profound negative effect upon the church and buffer some extreme positions which we see today.
- Peace
many Arminianists want to keep the Love of God and man free will to such anextent, that I also in discussion with those holding to that saying that while God forever secues us, that he still allows us freeom to walk away and damn ourselves!
In their theology, wouldn't ALL who go to hell and away from God making "free will" choices, and God just honors their request?
convicted1
Guest
My friend. If we do not have the power to save ourselves then we do not have the power to unsave ourselves, and if we did then there can be no coming back.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
convicted1
Guest
many Arminianists want to keep the Love of God and man free will to such anextent, that I also in discussion with those holding to that saying that while God forever secues us, that he still allows us freeom to walk away and damn ourselves!
In their theology, wouldn't ALL who go to hell and away from God making "free will" choices, and God just honors their request?
I heard a FWB preacher state this on the radio one time; (me paraphrasing)"A person can live for Christ for 40 years, and in the last week of their life, choose to walk away, and die lost." Yuck!!
I heard a FWB preacher state this on the radio one time; (me paraphrasing)"A person can live for Christ for 40 years, and in the last week of their life, choose to walk away, and die lost." Yuck!!
Who would be getting the eternal reward for their good works done for Christ while in their 'saved states" though?
convicted1
Guest
Who would be getting the eternal reward for their good works done for Christ while in their 'saved states" though?
I think they weren't saved to begin with, if this was to happen. No one can forfeit their salvation.
I think they weren't saved to begin with, if this was to happen. No one can forfeit their salvation.
I agree, just seems like in their scenerio, God would be left holding the "spiritual rewards" someone had legitimately earned!
convicted1
Guest
I agree, just seems like in their scenerio, God would be left holding the "spiritual rewards" someone had legitimately earned!
Satan, himself, can transform himself into the "appearance" of light, or something close to that. So humans can think they're saved, and really aren't. Or they can know they're not, and deceive people, but not God. Satan has as many, if not more, workers in the local churches.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Satan, himself, can transform himself into the "appearance" of light, or something close to that. So humans can think they're saved, and really aren't. Or they can know they're not, and deceive people, but not God. Satan has as many, if not more, workers in the local churches.
Yes, he comes as a messenger of light.
Elaborate how one can think they are saved, and what they did to arrive at the conclusion that they are saved?
convicted1
Guest
Yes, he comes as a messenger of light.
Elaborate how one can think they are saved, and what they did to arrive at the conclusion that they are saved?
Well, I'll use my daddy for instance. Back when I was very young(I don't remember this, btw), dad was dunked in the water. Over a period of time, he came to realize he wasn't what he thought he was. He sent word to that church to take his name off the book(this is what he told me). On June 30, 1997, He met the man who told him everything he'd ever done, the one who "no Man ever spake like this Man." He's never been the same man since.
So I do think some people can believe they're saved, and then realize they're not. Some admit it and leave the church. Some stay and split the church by stirring up trouble every chance they get.
Yes, he comes as a messenger of light.
Elaborate how one can think they are saved, and what they did to arrive at the conclusion that they are saved?
Good question!
For IF salvation based upon NOT God election to us, but upon our "free will" response, how is there real security/awareness in that system?
A.T. Robertson in Word Pictures wrote about Eph. 1:13, "Ye were sealed (esphragisthête). First aorist passive indicative of sphragizô, old verb, to set a seal on one as a mark or stamp, sometimes the marks of ownership or of worship of deities like stigmata "
freeatlast
New Member
Does God allow us Free Will enough to "undo" His sealing work?
That God can keep us saved, but still allows free will to 'walk away?"
If someone leaves who claimed to be saved then they were never saved.
1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
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freeatlast
New Member
Good question!
For IF salvation based upon NOT God election to us, but upon our "free will" response, how is there real security/awareness in that system?
Because God keeps us by His abiding Spirit.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Mt. 7:22-23, "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'
preacher4truth
Active Member
Mt. 7:22-23, "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'
Then they were never saved. He never knew them, not I used to know you.
- Peace