Casting out demons

[steaver]

Anyone watch msnbc or fox news last nite and see Matt 7 being fulfilled right before your eyes?

They were showing these "preachers" shouting demons out of "believers" gripping their hands on their faces and jerking their heads around, placing the bible on top of their heads, etc, you've seen the images. Is that how Jesus and the apostles cast them out? Is it possible for a demon to reside in the same house as the Holy Spirit? Can a true believer (one retaining the Holy Spirit) at the same time have a demon possessing them? I would think NOT!

Mat 7:15¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Some here believe these preachers are true believers. What do you think?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

1. Demon possession is real
2. Just because someone goes to church and says they are a Christian does not mean they are filled with the Holy Spirit
3. I don't read in scripture where Jesus or the Apostles do any of the antics of the TV preachers when they cast out demons - so I doubt they are really helping anyone with that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Lagardo]

We talked about this very thing in our wed night prayer meeting. Personally, I believe to objectify the Bible as a powerful object, able to "burn" a demon possessed person or knock a demon out of their head is to make it no better than a voodoo doll.

We are told to test the spirits, and the important question to ask when we see such preachers is this: who is being glorified?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

My pastor back in Carolina told of one who went to one of those meetings and got in line to be healed of a physical malady. After going through the violent shaking of the head and body, the minister knocked him down. He laid there on the floor awhile. When he got up, he went back to the back of line and waited to see the preacher again. This time with a headache.:wavey:

 

[steaver]

(standingfirminChrist).....My pastor back in Carolina told of one who went to one of those meetings and got in line to be healed of a physical malady. After going through the violent shaking of the head and body, the minister knocked him down. He laid there on the floor awhile. When he got up, he went back to the back of line and waited to see the preacher again. This time with a headache.:wavey:

Good one! :laugh:

When I sat and watched those preachers doing this my heart felt so heavy and sad that Jesus' name would be used in such a way. I know that the Spirit of Christ dwells in me and my quickened spirit screamed within me that this is terribly wrong. If this kind of casting out demons was from God would not the Spirit convict my spirit that it was indeed from God?

(BobRyan)....1. Demon possession is real

I don't believe any Christian would disagree.

2. Just because someone goes to church and says they are a Christian does not mean they are filled with the Holy Spirit

Agree.

3. I don't read in scripture where Jesus or the Apostles do any of the antics of the TV preachers when they cast out demons - so I doubt they are really helping anyone with that.

in Christ,

Bob

Amen again! Three for three brother, we really need to get back to each others throat....:laugh:

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I often wanted to go to one of those meetings and stand behind one who is being prayed for.

Just to find if they really are 'slain in the Spirit', I just might move out of the way at last minute as they fall.

If it is the Spirit pushing them down, ain't we hindering the Spirit by catching them?

If they jump up immediately, it may be the wrong spirit they were touched by.

 

[BobRyan]

There are 3 or 4 options here --

1. The speaker is faking it -- no one is slain in the spirit, they are just overcome with emotion.
2. The speaker and the actors are all in it together - duping the audience
3. God is doing something
4. An evil spirit is present and is doing something.

In general from the little of it that I have watched - I am not inclined to believe it is option 3.

 

[Joe]

James 4:7 "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you"

Matthew 4:10-11 "Away with you Satan! For it is written You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only "shall you serve" "Then the devil left Him, and behold angels came and ministered to him"

Satan attempted a wicked spiritual attack against Jesus during his 40 day fast. After he resisted, the Devil left him and Angels came to minster to him. It appears if we put our faith in God, the Demon Spirits will flee.


Joe

 

[BobRyan]

Christ defeated Satan with the Word of God "It is Written".

But notice that in Matt 17 the disciples could not cast out some demons - even though it WAS the will of God that they be cast out.

In Acts we even see people attacked and damaged by demon possessed persons as they tried to cast out the demons.

This is not something to be toyed with -

In Christ,

Bob

 

[peterotto]

1. Demon possession is real
Bob

It depends on what you mean by possession. To a point where the person has no control over himself?

 

[LeBuick]

Interesting topic. Are we to believe demon posession stopped after the Bible days? How about sickness? Death? Blindness? How about "issue of blood"? Did those things stop after the Bible days?

Matthew 17:14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

1. If a man came to Jesus saying Lord have mercy on my son, would he not be a believer for coming? Would a non believer come to Christ?
2. The disciples then asked a great question, why could we not cast him out? Then there was Jesus' response, "21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."

I will say no to your question of demon and spirit simultaniously occupying the same flesh. Scripture tells us this can't happen. Evil must be purged before the holy spirit occupies.

Can one pray our a spirit??? Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting

This also brings to question, what is biblical laying of hands?

 

[BobRyan]

Biblical laying on of hands if for healing AND ALSO for conveying church office according to the NT

 

[steaver]

James 4:7 "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you"

Matthew 4:10-11 "Away with you Satan! For it is written You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only "shall you serve" "Then the devil left Him, and behold angels came and ministered to him"

Satan attempted a wicked spiritual attack against Jesus during his 40 day fast. After he resisted, the Devil left him and Angels came to minster to him. It appears if we put our faith in God, the Demon Spirits will flee.


Joe

I do not doubt that evil spirits can torment a believer. What I don't believe is that an evil demon can be IN a believer for it could not reside with the Holy Spirit.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

1. If a man came to Jesus saying Lord have mercy on my son, would he not be a believer for coming? Would a non believer come to Christ?

The man was a believer in that he believed Jesus was from God and could heal his son. The man was not "born of God" for the Holy Spirit was not yet given until after Jesus' ressurection. The man did not have the Spirit of Christ living in him through rebirth, the regeneration phase of the bride of Christ had not yet begun.

God Bless!:thumbs:

 

[Tom Butler]

The man was a believer in that he believed Jesus was from God and could heal his son. The man was not "born of God" for the Holy Spirit was not yet given until after Jesus' ressurection. The man did not have the Spirit of Christ living in him through rebirth, the regeneration phase of the bride of Christ had not yet begun.

Tell you what. I don't want to derail this thread so I'm going to use steaver's post as the basis for a new thread. This is worth some more discussion.

 

[Melanie]

....interestingly enough at the seminary which is very conservative in its formation of priests, there is minor order of exorcist bestowed.....

...there are a number of accounts of possession written by Catholics on this topic...it is utterly terrifying. The films made of some cases are quite lame, the reality.....I have the utmost respect for the priests who tackle this.....it is very humbling.

 

[BobRyan]

This is a good point. Just because someone is a RC Priest does not mean that they can not be a born-again Christian.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LeBuick]

The man was a believer in that he believed Jesus was from God and could heal his son. The man was not "born of God" for the Holy Spirit was not yet given until after Jesus' ressurection. The man did not have the Spirit of Christ living in him through rebirth, the regeneration phase of the bride of Christ had not yet begun.

God Bless!:thumbs:

What about the thief on the cross next to Jesus? By your theory he was not born of God because Jesus was yet to be ressurected. Was the promise to be in paradise salvation?

Not to derail this thread but I have another question. If Christ is the seccond in the Godhead and the Holy Spirit is third, is the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9 I assume) the same as the Holy Spirit? I believed the third part of the Godhead was the comforter (Jn 14:26) and the second was the vehicle or means to salvation or the ends "The Father" (Jn 10:9, Jn 14:6).

Again, sorry to derail this thread but I am late going up to service so must post and run. Perhaps someone can start a new thread for me.

 

[Tom Butler]

Perhaps someone can start a new thread for me.

Done. Titled" Are Believers Necessarily Born Again?"

 

[steaver]

What about the thief on the cross next to Jesus? By your theory he was not born of God because Jesus was yet to be ressurected. Was the promise to be in paradise salvation?

Yes the promise was salvation just as it was for all who placed their faith in the One True God of our Bible. The thief went to paradise where all of the OT saints went and later to heaven (Eph 4:8) after Jesus' ressurrection.

God Bless! :thumbs: