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Catholics and Muslims

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by neal4christ, May 27, 2003.

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  1. neal4christ

    neal4christ New Member

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    From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2nd ed., paragraph 841:

    The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

    Please tell me this ain't so! I read this in another thread and I whipped out my Catechism to see for myself because I truly did not believe it. We worship the same God as the Muslims? Salvation now includes those who acknowledge the Creator? What about Jesus Christ and what He has done? And the resurrection? I find this one very hard to swallow. As far as I know, Muslims have a very different view as to who Jesus is and the events surrounding His death (they don't believe He did, it was someone else, right? So they can't believe in the resurrection, right?). Any explanation/other information to shed light on this would be much appreciated.

    Neal

    Edit: Subsequently I talked with a Catholic and have gained a better understanding of the Catholic position. Read the Catechism's paragraph carefully (unlike I did) before you engage in the discussion, please. I apologize for any misrepresentation of the Catholic position in my comments.

    [ May 27, 2003, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
     
    #1 neal4christ, May 27, 2003
  2. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

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    This dead horse has been beaten enough. Get ready for all the typical RC double-talk. Its all about your standard RC anti- Semitism.
     
    #2 Ps104_33, May 27, 2003
  3. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber <img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">

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    Subsequently I talked with a Catholic and have gained a better understanding of the Catholic position.

    That's why giving "the benefit of the doubt" is generally a good idea.
     
    #3 Carson Weber, May 27, 2003
  4. A_Christian

    A_Christian New Member

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    When it comes to spending an etrnity in Hell,
    I really feel that making excuses for the false
    religious beliefs of others is counterproductive.

    Be a learned witness and not a partner in crime.
     
    #4 A_Christian, May 27, 2003
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Do you include Jews among those with false religious beliefs? Just curious.
     
    #5 Johnv, May 27, 2003
  6. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

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    If you want to know what Roman Catholics believe concerning Jews and Muslims, read anything by Pat Buchanan. He's one of the only Catholics that has the guts to reveal what is the heart belief of most Roman Catholics. He comes out and says what most Catholics really believe concerning the Israel and Muslim situation.
    Most Catholics just look at Israel as a stumbling block to world peace and would just as well see them go.
     
    #6 Ps104_33, May 27, 2003
  7. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Wow, Psalm!!!!

    You can read hearts???!!!

    How do you do that???!!!!

    Can you teach the rest of us???!!!

    :( :( :(
     
    #7 trying2understand, May 27, 2003
  8. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

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    Well, did I read yours! [​IMG]
     
    #8 Ps104_33, May 27, 2003
  9. neal4christ

    neal4christ New Member

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    To an extent. They definitely have an incomplete belief. I honestly haven't done a lot of study on Jewish beliefs, but for the ones that reject Jesus, I would definitely say it is incomplete.

    Neal
     
    #9 neal4christ, May 27, 2003
  10. neal4christ

    neal4christ New Member

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    Generally, but not always. :D Hey, I was wrong and I admitted it. I apologized. What else can I do? I was going to delete the post, but instead I edited to show that I know that I was wrong and don't have a problem admitting it. Hey, I can't win them all! [​IMG]

    One thing that I don't like in the statement is the notion that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Yes, they say it is the God of Abraham, but the one they now worship is contrary to the God revealed in the Bible. How can the two be the same? I agree they worship a creator, but is it really the Creator? And no, I am not accusing their God to be a moon god. I just don't see how we can call what they do worship to the one true God when they reject truth concerning the one true God.

    Neal
     
    #10 neal4christ, May 27, 2003
  11. A_Christian

    A_Christian New Member

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    Johnv:

    Are you saved by keeping only some of the law?
    Are you saved by not performing sacrifices?
    Are you saved by not knowing the Messiah?

    There are Messianic Jews. I also believe that
    the Jew will be brought to Christ some day.

    God still has a promise for them. What is the
    point of religious belief if you die in your
    sins. We must show them Christ throughout their
    Testament.
     
    #11 A_Christian, May 27, 2003
  12. Rakka Rage

    Rakka Rage New Member

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    define
     
    #12 Rakka Rage, May 27, 2003
  13. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    No.

    But by your previous statement you implied that, as a Catholic, I am anti-Semitic.

    Perhaps you should apologize.

    Your broad stroked slander of all Catholics as anti-Semitic makes you look like something of a bigot. [​IMG]

    Ron
     
    #13 trying2understand, May 27, 2003
  14. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I guess you missed my point. It seems that Muslims are being defined by the fact that they deny Christ. By that reckoning, Jews also practice a false religion, since they, too, reject Christ. OTOH, both are children of Abraham, something we "grafted" folks are not.

    As far as Messianic Jews, they are Jews who are Christian. There are also Muslims who are Christian.
     
    #14 Johnv, May 27, 2003
  15. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    One thing that I don't like in the statement is the notion that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Yes, they say it is the God of Abraham, but the one they now worship is contrary to the God revealed in the Bible.

    The same can be said of the Jews. It can be said that by rejecting the Messiah, they don't worship the same God of the Bible that we do.

    Either the Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God (Messianic disagreements notwithstanding), or they don't.
     
    #15 Johnv, May 27, 2003
  16. neal4christ

    neal4christ New Member

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    Is it really right to call it worship when they deny revealed truth of this one they claim to worship? Are they not then worshipping a God they have created?

    Neal
     
    #16 neal4christ, May 27, 2003
  17. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I'd like to say no, but otoh, the desire to pay homage to God is still a sincere desire which God hears, even when the person's view of God is so greatly imperfect that it may conflict with the view of God as we know him.

    Then again, even we, with full knowlege of the OT and NT creator, are far from perfect in how we see and worship God.
     
    #17 Johnv, May 27, 2003
  18. neal4christ

    neal4christ New Member

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    Then I would be hesitant to truly call it worship.

    Neal
     
    #18 neal4christ, May 27, 2003
  19. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    No, they are defined by the fact that they worship Allah, the moon god, and the Quran wasn't in existance until some 600 years after Christ.

    So, all Muslims are children of Abraham? Even Filipinos and Chinese? NOT! Don't you mean Arabs? The word "Arab" and "Muslim" are not interchangeable.


    Name a "Muslim" who is a Christian. There are Arabs who are Christian who may have been former Muslims, but there are no Muslim Christians. Please, your stretch to defend Allah boggles the mind! :rolleyes:
     
    #19 LadyEagle, May 28, 2003
  20. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    http://answering-islam.org/Intro/islamic_jesus.html
     
    #20 LadyEagle, May 28, 2003
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