Christian Influence and Alcohol

[Zaac]

Is alcohol (Please save the lists of everything else that could be placed here. This thread is about ALCOHOL) beneficial to the life of the Christian and to society as a whole?

Scripture says 23 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive. 24 No one should seek their own good, but the good of others. 1 Cor. 10:23-24

According to the Betty Ford Center, it is estimated that 10 -15% of adolescents who drink will become alcoholics.

All of us influence people. Who will the Christian who drinks in moderation influence to drink in moderation and in turn that person becomes an alcoholic?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Is alcohol (Please save the lists of everything else that could be placed here. This thread is ALCOHOL) beneficial to the life of the Christian and to society as a whole?

My opinion is that of one who does not drink.

Is it beneficial to the life of a Christian? Here's what Paul said.

1 Timothy 5:23 - "Don't continue drinking only water, but use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."

A glass of red wine at night IS beneficial - medically speaking. It's been proven. So is drinking dark grape juice and eating lots of red/purple grapes.

 

[InTheLight]

If drinking is so wrong, why is God going to serve us the best aged (fermented) wines?

Isaiah 25:6
On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines.

 

[Zaac]

My opinion is that of one who does not drink.

Is it beneficial to the life of a Christian? Here's what Paul said.

1 Timothy 5:23 - "Don't continue drinking only water, but use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."

A glass of red wine at night IS beneficial - medically speaking. It's been proven. So is drinking dark grape juice and eating lots of red/purple grapes.

It's not the wine. It's the resveratrol found in the seeds and the skin of the grapes. The fermented alcohol is of no benefit.:flower: You can actually drink regular grape jusice and get the same thing.

 

[Zaac]

If drinking is so wrong, why is God going to serve us the best aged (fermented) wines?

Isaiah 25:6
On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines.

I did not ask about the right or wrong of it. I asked what the benefit is.:thumbs:

 

[Bro. James]

Alcohol has been a curse to man all the way back to Noah's vineyard. Much of the world worships Bacchus, the wino. Many people have to have alcohol to be sociable. The cost of social alcohol in terms of loss of life and destruction of families has never been tallied. We really do not want to know.

Jesus' first recorded miracle was changing water into wine--some say Welchade. It must be O.K.--not if it is a stumblingblock--like meat sacrificed to idols.

The biggest inconsistency is the standard Baptist church covenant which plainly says a church member must abstain from alcohol as a beverage.
This makes hypocrites out of many. The world is watching.

Curious: the first thing affected by alcohol is the brain then the tongue.
One drink affects our reasoning ability. Then we lose track of our mouths.

Read about the tragedy in the Busch family.


If we have to ask someone if our white shirt looks dirty, it probably does.

Now what?

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Scarlett O.]

It's not the wine. It's the resveratrol found in the seeds and the skin of the grapes. The fermented alcohol is of no benefit.:flower: You can actually drink regular grape jusice and get the same thing.

I'm familiar with resveratrol. I take the supplements. I also know quite a few folks who drink a glass of red wine in the privacy of their homes. I see no harm - only benefit.

Couldn't Paul have said, "Timothy, eat a bowl of grapes every night?" He didn't. This Bible verse wasn't a command to drink wine, but it shows to me, that there is - in wisdom and moderation - no sin in the drinking of it (barring drunkenness) and actually benefit.

I understand what you are saying.

Paul says in Galatians 5 (I was just reading that this morning) that our freedom in Christ is for the purpose of serving others. He also says in Romans that we should not be a stumbling block to those who are weak in the faith.

I believe drinking in moderation - and the freedom in Christ that provides that - should never be done without forgetting that perhaps a service to others would be having only one beer at a public luncheon or drinking one glass of wine at night privately.

We have freedom - but that comes with responsibility to others. So says Paul.

 

[Zaac]

I'm familiar with resveratrol. I take the supplements. I also know quite a few folks who drink a glass of red wine in the privacy of their homes. I see no harm - only benefit.

But the benefit isn't the fermented wine. That part is just giving a little buzz

Couldn't Paul have said, "Timothy, eat a bowl of grapes every night?" He didn't. .

True indeed. But you don't get the same concentrated effect from a bowl of grapes as you would from, say, a glass of grape juice with many times more resveratrol in it. Eating enough grapes to give you the same amount that you would get from mashed grape skins mixed in with the juice would probably one, not fit in the stomach and two, put so much sugar in ya that it would do more harm than good. :laugh:

This Bible verse wasn't a command to drink wine, but it shows to me, that there is - in wisdom and moderation - no sin in the drinking of it (barring drunkenness) and actually benefit

I understand what you are saying

.

Perhaps...unless someone asks you if you drink in moderation, and then I think we're right back to the benefit to man as a whole.

Paul says in Galatians 5 (I was just reading that this morning) that our freedom in Christ is for the purpose of serving others. He also says in Romans that we should not be a stumbling block to those who are weak in the faith

.

I was studying Galatians not too long ago and recalled that verse before quoting the 1 Cor. 10 verse. Does it serve others...is it to the benefit of others that Christians drink even in moderation if moderate drinking leads to the alcoholism of 15 out of every 100 teens who may start drinking because we example moderate drinking to be "safe"?

I believe drinking in moderation - and the freedom in Christ that provides that - should never be done without forgetting that perhaps a service to others would be having only one beer at a public luncheon or drinking one glass of wine at night privately.

And that again is why I ask about the benefit. All alcoholics and anyone who gets drunk will usually start off as a "social", "moderate" drinker. If our social, moderate drinking is leading otehrs to drunkenness or alcoholism, is it beneficial for us to do it? Especially if our freedom is for the benefit of serving others.

 

[Baptist4life]

"Drink a little wine for your stomach....." is not the same as "Have a nice glass of bourbon on the rocks simply because you enjoy the taste...."

 

[webdog]

To me it holds the same social benefit of sharing a cup of coffee with friends. It 'gladdens the heart of man'. It is an anti depressant (Provers 31:7). It has been proven to be good for the heart. Recent studies show beer re-hydrates the body quicker after strenuous exercise. It can 'set the mood' for the Mrs...good enough reason in itself

 

[Ed B]

The answer depends on culture and audience. Having a beer with a non-Christian who drinks can be beneficial. I have been in situations where sharing a beer with unchurched people gave me opportunities to be a positive influence and presented witnessing opportunities to those I was with. However, there are people who would be offended by seeing me drink a single beer, primarily some people at my Church, and I will not use my liberty in a way that offends them.


Certainly here in the South, our cultural taboos against drinking are often extra-biblical but they are still real to individuals. My liberty can cause harm to some. My mother in law was raised in a rather austere Baptist home (her father was a Baptists pastor). She wasn’t able to shake the belief that somehow playing card games is sinful until the late ‘90s even though she knew that position was no biblically defensible. It was deeply ingrained in her from her youth. I know her feelings on drinking alcohol. I would not dream of having a beer or a glass of wine in her presence because I know it would be uncomfortable for her. My liberty in this area is not worth making her uncomfortable. If she asks me if I ever drink I will not lie to her, but out of respect for her I would not bring the subject up for debate or drink while in her company.

 

[webdog]

"Drink a little wine for your stomach....." is not the same as "Have a nice glass of bourbon on the rocks simply because you enjoy the taste...."

Scripture that enjoying the taste of something is sinful? This is pure gnosticism.

 

[Zaac]

To me it holds the same social benefit of sharing a cup of coffee with friends.

And what of the spiritual benefit to you and those who view you drinking?

It 'gladdens the heart of man'. It is as anti depressant (Provers 31:7).

Not the fermented juice. But what is IN it.

It has been proven to be good for the heart. Recent studies show beer rehydrates the body quicker after strenuous exercise. It can 'set the mood' for the Mrs...good enough reason in itself

Again, it has been proven that it's not the alcohol that is a benefit. Alcohol is poisonous to the body no matter how you look at it.

 

[Baptist4life]

Scripture that enjoying the taste of something is sinful? This is pure gnosticism.

Thank you for the insult. Bye!

 

[webdog]

Thank you for the insult. Bye!

Who is insulted? You 'rolled your eyes' for someone enjoying the taste of something.

 

[webdog]

And what of the spiritual benefit to you and those who view you drinking?

Probably the same spiritual benefit as someone who views me watching a football game or mowing the lawn.

Not the fermented juice. But what is IN it.

Huh? Distinction without a difference.

Again, it has been proven that it's not the alcohol that is a benefit. Alcohol is poisonous to the body no matter how you look at it.

I would like to see your scientific source for this, as I just read in a fitness publication the benefit is the alcohol and not the skin of the grapes as previously thought. Trans fats are much more poisonous to the body, yet oddly in recent days I have not seen one thread on bakery sweets or fried foods.

 

[Zaac]

The answer depends on culture and audience. Having a beer with a non-Christian who drinks can be beneficial. I have been in situations where sharing a beer with unchurched people gave me opportunities to be a positive influence and presented witnessing opportunities to those I was with.

Witnessing about what? Are we not to have the mind of Christ and is that not affected by the interaction of alcohol with the brain?

However, there are people who would be offended by seeing me drink a single beer, primarily some people at my Church, and I will not use my liberty in a way that offends them.

May I ask why you drink?

 

[webdog]

Witnessing about what? Are we not to have the mind of Christ and is that not affected by the interaction of alcohol with the brain?

200 mg of caffeine has the same affect on the brain.

In addition, Jesus had no problem with the interaction and alcohol, neither has any Jew who has celebrated passover over the past 6000 years or so.

 

[Zaac]

Probably the same spiritual benefit as someone who views me watching a football game or mowing the lawn.

Ungh ungh. As I stated in the beginning, this is about alcohol not allthe other stuff you could replace it with.

Huh? Distinction without a difference.

There is indeed a difference. The properties of the juice within the skin and seeds is completely different from the juice in the pulp of the grape.

I would like to see your scientific source for this, as I just read in a fitness publication the benefit is the alcohol and not the skin of the grapes as previously thought.

I've got a couple or three chemistry degrees, and if I recall correctly, most drinking alcohol is ethyl alcohol and it breaks down into acetaldehyde. Look that stuff up and see what it is.

 

[Zaac]

200 mg of caffeine has the same affect on the brain.

Then it's probably not a good idea to consume that much caffeine either.

In addition, Jesus had no problem with the interaction and alcohol, neither has any Jew who has celebrated passover over the past 6000 years or so.

Jesus had no problem with what interaction and alcohol?