Christian Liberties

[steaver]

Recently the topic of Christian Liberties has come up in a conversation/debate over patronizing bars and drinking alcohol. I thought it would be helpful if we looked at some of these topics and see if they do or do not fall under Christian Liberties from a biblical teaching.

I will present a list of some topics and you all can add to the list as we go and we can do a bible study to see what God says about the topic rather than testing the issue from a "feeling" or "opinion" type analysis.

There definitely is such a thing as Christian Liberty on certain topics, this is not denied and is spoken of in the Scriptures. The debate is over which topics or issues do we affirm as neither right or wrong, but falling under Christian Liberty, and which ones cannot be considered a Christian Liberty because the Bible makes it clear that it is not a matter of Liberty - there is a right and wrong.

1) Abortion

2) Music/Songs

3) Alcohol

4) Bars

5) Fellowships serving Alcohol

6) Dancing

7) Foods

8) Speech/Slang/Cursing/Crude Jesting

9) Novels/Romance

10) TV Shows/Video Games/Entertainment

11) Sports/Boxing/Football/Etc

12) Taking a Sabbath Each Week/Doing Nothing Unnecessary

Please give supporting Scripture when opining on any particular subject. What really matters is what God says. :wavey:

 

[JamesL]

The debate is over which topics or issues do we affirm as neither right or wrong, but falling under Christian Liberty, and which ones cannot be considered a Christian Liberty because the Bible makes it clear that it is not a matter of Liberty - there is a right and wrong.

1) Abortion - Not a liberty. This issue goes deeper than the taking of a life. It cuts to the heart of God's authority and sovereignty. He is the sole giver and taker of life. There are other issues I equate with abortion - birth control, having tubes tied, vasectomy. Because these also intrude on God's authority. If He so desires to give a family 20 kids, then we should trust Him to know what's best for us, and to make provision. Believers have no right to say "I don't want any more kids, so I'm taking matters into my own hands"

2) Music/Songs - Scripture doesn't address secular music, per se. I believe it's a matter of liberty, but I also believe that we can allow corruption into our minds through God-dishonoring lyrics. I see music style as merely a preference, falling under liberty

3) Alcohol - liberty while in moderation. It can be abused, and turn into drunkenness.

4) Bars - See above.

5) Fellowships serving Alcohol - Same

6) Dancing - I can't dance, so it should be outlawed, lol


Seriously, there are a lot of these issues that boil down to user discretion and liberty, and God's leading. He knows, as well as we, what sort of stumbling we can encounter when we partake in anything that appeals to the flesh.

Not all desires of the flesh are evil, they just shouldn't be turned into an opportunity to disgrace our Lord.


There was a time when I was not allowed to buy a Sunday newspaper. I was really struggling with pornography at that time, and was trying to stay away from being enticed. But I found that the only reason I was buying the newspaper was to look at the Macy's, Montgomery Ward, Victoria's Secret ads. I wanted to see those girls.

How many believers have been restricted from buying a Sunday newspaper? Probably not many. I was, but that's purely a matter of liberty for probably 99.99% of all other believers

This might sound like a ridiculous example, but it is 100% truth. Most people would never conceive of this issue in a million years, but for me it was a real struggle, so I was restricted. I knew that God had said that it was 100% wrong for me to buy a Sunday newspaper.

Now, suppose I were to go on a crusade against newspapers, and declare that all men should stay away from them, newspapers are evil, they only want a newspaper so they can look at lingerie ads?

I'd sound like a goofy freak. What right would I have to impose my restriction on someone who doesn't have that struggle?

It's the same with food, alcohol, music, movies, etc.

There are many who have absolute restrictions, because they cannot partake of certain things. without dishonoring Christ. If scripture hasn't precisely forbidden it, then a man has to be convinced in his own conscience.

Acts 15:23-29
The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.

“Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,
it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
“Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth.
“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Recently the topic of Christian Liberties has come up in a conversation/debate over patronizing bars and drinking alcohol. I thought it would be helpful if we looked at some of these topics and see if they do or do not fall under Christian Liberties from a biblical teaching.

Actually, the discussion was about "pub fellowship" not "patronizing bars." Significant difference IMHO.

I agree with JamesL, that drinking in moderation is a Christian liberty. We do frequent pubs, taverns, etc. that serve meals. Today, I had fish & chips with a Bass Ale for lunch --- very good. However, we typically do not frequent bars. Again, that is a personal choice. We often have wine at home with meals. This is not an issue within my church or with my friends. I think it is more of a Baptist thing.

Regarding dancing, the sin is one of envy of those who can.

 

[steaver]

Actually, the discussion was about "pub fellowship" not "patronizing bars." Significant difference IMHO.

That was the OP. Within the OP the subject of Christian Liberty arose out of the drinking within public pubs or bars.

I agree with JamesL, that drinking in moderation is a Christian liberty. We do frequent pubs, taverns, etc. that serve meals. Today, I had fish & chips with a Bass Ale for lunch --- very good. However, we typically do not frequent bars. Again, that is a personal choice. We often have wine at home with meals. This is not an issue within my church or with my friends. I think it is more of a Baptist thing.

Which passage of Scripture would you reference supporting your view that it falls under Christian Liberty?