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Featured Christianity & Islam

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015.

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  1. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member
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    I'm new here. I hope everyone is doing well. I am not here to offend in any way. Really quite the opposite. I only have one or two questions.

    1) Why do you think Christians, and Islam can not unify under God? Why do they hold some contempt towards one another when ancient texts tell us that we are all believers, and all faithful in the Lord are brothers?

    2) What steps could be taken in order to bring all together under the one all encompassing Lord, our God?

    Faith in selfless Unity through Good
     
    #1 popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    There are many reasons, but the simplest answer is that Christians and Muslims do not believe in the same God.

    Welcome, BTW, to the BB.
     
    #2 JonC, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2015
  3. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member
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    If Allah translates to God, and God already means God, and they both refer to the same all encompassing God, then how do they believe in different God's?

    Does it not state in the Qur'an that true believers in Christ are their brothers in Faith. Incase you are unsure I will answer; yes, that is what it says. I mean the Torah and the Old Testament are literally the same book. If you went through your bibles and didn't read anything inside parentheses, brackets, or little crucifixes and then did the same in the Qur'an you would see that they are the same stories, same people, same lessons, and the same God. For whatever reasons the higher ups of religions have kept us in the dark on this amazing fact. Why would religious leaders intentionally divide the same religions. Like all the different Christian religions. Regardless of where your religions division falls, if you back up and read without bias, you will see that we are meant to be one unity under God. Not to mention this would bring world peace and all the benefits that come along with it.



    Faith in selfless Unity through Good
     
    #3 popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015
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  4. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member
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    Thanks for the welcome.

    Faith in selfless Unity through Good
     
    #4 popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Words are, essentially, symbols for something real. Yes, the word allah translates as the word god, which also translates as the Hebrew אֱלֹהִים‎ (elohim). Sure, “god” as in “deity” or “supreme being” could be attributed to just about any religion. This does not mean that each believes in the same god. Names are representatives for real things also. El means “god.” El may refer to deity in general (a god), it may refer to a specific Canaanite god or it may refer to the God of the Hebrews. Does this mean that Israel and the Canaanites worshipped the same God? Of course not, that would be a foolish conclusion. Elohim can mean God, or it could refer to the pantheon of Canaanite gods. Are all of those Canaanite gods the God of the Bible? Of course not. Now you want to say because Muslims call their god “Allah,” which means “god,” or “El,’ or "Elohim" that they must worship the same God as Christians. This, likewise, is a foolish conclusion. Names represent things. You have only to look at the nature of the gods/God in question to figure this out.

    Another example, if you will. My name is Jon. There are many Jon's out there. It would be silly, if your name was Jon, to conclude that you were me even if I insisted you were. If we looked at each other we would see that we were different people.

    If you describe Allah and you describe God, and then compare each, you will see a marked difference. If the God of the Bible is the real God, then the doctrine of Islam is demonic. The two cannot blend into one. They have as their objects of worship different Gods. Since Islam is a product of fairly recent history (compared to Christianity or Judaism) I would think it would be less difficult to spot the counterfeit.
     
    #5 JonC, Jul 23, 2015
  6. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    It's a different God. Christians follow Christ as the Son of God. Christians hold to the Deity of Christ. Most Christians hold to a triune God. Muslims deny Jesus death on the cross and His Deity. Muslims worship a false God provided by the liar muhammed.

    *nobody has have hide the fact that stories of Abraham and such are held by Muslims. It is the teachings of muhammad that teach violence, hate and murder of Christians. Teachings that deny Christ for who he is. Which means the do not have God in their lives. They have a false God.

    1John 2:23 "No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also."
     
    #6 McCree79, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2015
  7. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member
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    JonC,

    No one is talking about Canaanites. The Torah, and the Old Testament are the same. The one God that created all is the same God no matter what Word you use to refer to it.

    Indeed why don't you examine the nature of God in the Old Testament, Qur'an, and Torah, and the New Testament. Without added twisted translations of course and you will see what I mean.

    I don't need you to dumb anything down for me, so please refrain, if you would.
    The doctrine of Islam is Damn near identical to Christianity. It is pretty much interchangeable.

    So yeah, how is Islam demonic when their texts says to love all true believers in God and Christ while modern translations of the bible finger point at Islam, and according to you call them demons. Yeah I could see how they would get kinda pissed about that.

    Again, how is the all encompassing, loving, all knowing, merciful, God some how different if it is the same and stemmed from the same book... the Torah? Please go back over my post that you quoted and attempt to answer with slightly more direct sesponces as opposed to unrelated references to make some point I didn't ask about. Thank you.


    Faith in selfless Unity through Good
     
    #7 popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015
  8. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member
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    Ok. So Christ is the son of God. Muslims refer to him as the perfect messenger. Either way he returned to the Lord from which he came upon death. The Lord he came from is the same Lord that is his "father" the God of the Old Testament. Say Christ is God. It's the same thing as saying he returned to God. Islam does not dispute Christ or his truthful followers so why do Christians dispute them?

    Faith in selfless Unity through Good
     
    #8 popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I will tell you the difference. Christians live by the grace of God, Islam lives by the scales of their own works. Christians understand that our salvation comes through Jesus the Messiah. Islam sees Jesus as a prophet not a Messiah. Christians rest in the finished work of the cross. Islam rests in their own works for their righteousness.

    Two completely different Gods. Our God is true, the god of Islam is not real.
     
    #9 Revmitchell, Jul 23, 2015
  10. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member
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    They live by the grace of God too. And by the grace of God are you implying that all sin is forgivable except for blasphemy? Because it says all that to. Indeed good works through true Faith is a way to God. Pretty sure the New Testament touches on that as well.

    Faith in selfless Unity through Good
     
    #10 popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not sure if you simply fail to understand or if you simply fail to accept. I suppose it doesn't matter, but if you want to dialogue you really need to study not only the similarities but the differences between the religions you choose to discuss.
     
    #11 JonC, Jul 23, 2015
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Their salvation is not received by the grace of God. They do not rely on the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Messiah. There is no other person or way to be saved.
     
    #12 Revmitchell, Jul 23, 2015
  13. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member
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    I am currently studying both sides. Why must I focus on division of civilization again?

    Faith in selfless Unity through Good
     
    #13 popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015
  14. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member
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    Especially when unity through true Faith can bring world peace and unbound sociatal advancment.

    Faith in selfless Unity through Good
     
    #14 popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015
  15. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member
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    Christ as a human was a perfect example of what a human could be. There will never be another. However surely you don't worship a man so you must be talking about Christ after the resurrection which is the same as God. So both literally worship the same God. If you really worship the man Jesus then I guess I see the problem.

    Faith in selfless Unity through Good
     
    #15 popsthebuilder, Jul 23, 2015
  16. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Islam does certainly dispute Christ and his atoning work. They hold he is just a man. Not God. You asked JonC how Islam is demonic. Well, Apostle John calls those who deny the deity of Christ as those of the spirit of the antichrist. Also in first John. Last half of chapter 2 and chapter 4 he makes it clear. To deny Christ is to deny the Father and is of the antichrist. Sura 5:72 says "they do blaspheme who say 'Allah is Christ the son of Mary......". 9:30says "Christians call Christ the Son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; they but imitate what tge unbelievers of old say. Allah's curse be in them: how they are deluded from the truth". 5:72; "Christ , the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were messengers before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their bread. See how allah doth make his signs clear to them; yet in what ways they are deluded away from the truth."

    Islam is a false religion from the spirit of the antichrist.

    Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk
     
    #16 McCree79, Jul 23, 2015
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was both fully God and fully man. Any other belief is heresy. Jesus made that clear.
     
    #17 Revmitchell, Jul 23, 2015
  18. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    False gospel. That is not true. Not by works so no man can boast. You teach salvation by works. Your days are numbered on this forum, if you reach that here. No where in the bible is that stated!

    Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk
     
    #18 McCree79, Jul 23, 2015
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  19. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Christ was God from the beginning. See John chapter 1.

    Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk
     
    #19 McCree79, Jul 23, 2015
  20. BrotherJoseph

    BrotherJoseph Well-Known Member

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    The Bible does not teach Christ became God after the resurrection as you imply above, but rather He was God in the beginning, then was made flesh, "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." (John 1:1,14)
     
    #20 BrotherJoseph, Jul 23, 2015
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