Christians.....Kiss It GOODBYE !

Wasn't it under the control of non-Jews before the war in 1967? Were Christians allowed to visit then?

Anyway, not being a Catholic I am not really interested in visiting man-made shrines which no one is even sure if they are the correct historical places to begin with.

This world is not my home - including modern day Israel, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, etc. If dispensational premillennialists want it, ya'll are welcomed to it as far as I am concerned.

 

Tell us how you really feel!

 

I think that there are a few sites that are significant to Christians that are under the rulership of non Christian groups.

This site is operated by the Catholic, Greek Orthadox and another Orthadox church (I think).

I have seen on t.v people lining up to go and kiss a metal plate where it is supposed to be. On that basis, we have to proceed carefully, It is a good thing to look at places that have significance to our history, I am sure that to be in a place where it is known that Jesus was would have an interesting feel to it. Yet we are commanded in the bible not to build shrines and things of that nature.

I hope that we can get a peacefull resolution to the Middle East crisis. For all of the Road Maps and various peace accords, none has brought the peace that we desperatley seek. Let us not give up in prayer that our Father will bring Peace to this situation.

 

My sentiments exactly! There is too much emphasis placed on relics when we have the Word of God, and it is true that the Catholic Church has a monopoly on all the site there and they would rather see the Holy Land in Palestinian hands anyway. Besides it is a political issue not a spiritual one.

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

 

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to visit a Bethlehem at peace, rather than risk life to visit it as it is today, regardless of who governed it?

 

What about Scarsdale?

Haruo

PS: Arab rule in Bethlehem will not necessarily lead to "Islamic law" (by which I suppose you mean shari'a even if you don't know what you mean); the "nonexistent" Palestinian Arabs of Bethlehem used to be predominantly Christian, but the area has been largely islamicized as an indirect but real result of the Israeli occupation.

 

The problem in Indonesia is not religion, its ethnicity. The Islamic extremists want a racially pure Indonesia, ala Saddam Hussein and Iraq. I speak with some authority on this subject. It's how my family came to the US. My family is mixed race Indonesian and European. I still have family there that are ethnic Indonesian and Christian. The extremists don't bother them because of their Indonesian features.

 

We left when I was younger (I'm in my late 30's). I've since become a US citizen & the whole nine yards. I don't want to give out too much personal info in a public forum.

We should not only remember Christians that have been killed, but also the moderate Muslims, buddhists, and Hindus in the region. Anyway, I didn't intend to take part in this thread per se, just to interject some info about Indonesia. I'll bow out right about here

 

As long as dollars and Euros are spent by Western Christians, the sites will remain open, believe me!

 

I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about. From 1949 to 1967, and even from 1517 to 1918, when Bethlehem was under 'Islamic Rule' (whatever that means ) there was no problem, from the Muslims at least, on Christians visiting the 'Holy Places'. The only trouble was caused by the Catholics and Orthodox arguing over who should run them - from 1774 to the early 1850s it was the Orthodox,largely as a result of pressure on the Turks (who administered Palestine until Allenby's conquest in 1918) from the Russians. Then the French under Napoleon III started flexing their muscles on behalf of the Catholics, and this was one of the causative factors behind the Crimean War.

I agree entirely with Haruo - the current perceived 'threat' from Islam would be a lot less if the Israelis would back off and stop radicalising the Palestinian population. If anyone is at all worried about this, that is where they should address their concerns.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

"and it is true that the Catholic Church has a monopoly on all the site there"

Control of the 'Holy' sites in Israel is shared between several denominations, it is NEVER just the Roman Catholics. They are in fact on the whole the smallest faction.

Some cynics have pointed out, that maybe the real reason Baptists don't care about the issue is that we don't see a chance to get our fingers in the holy sites pie ourselves.

 

Hey, why don't we start the crusades all over again? That way Christians could be in control of Jerusalem.

 

I agree with the point, RevG. I can't imagine Jesus cares one way or the other which religious faction is in control of some particular piece of real estate.

-Neil