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Christmas thoughts

Thinkingstuff

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
I remember last Christmas seeing bumper stickers last year that said things like "put Christ back into Christmas" and "Jesus is the reason for the season" And so I thought about it a little bit and I wondered about that last bumper sticker. Is it really I thought? I mean reading the NT we can guess that Jesus was most likely born in September maybe around the 16th. December 25th didn't have anything to do with the birth of Jesus but it was a Roman Festival. The festival of Sol Invictus. The festival of the invincible sun. A Deity that is portrayed as a man with a spikey Halo or crown similar to the statue of Liberty. At some point Sol Invictus and Mythra were combined. This was adapted to the Christ Mass (what reason I'm not certain of) which comes down to us as Christmas. So is Jesus really the reason for the season or the Fact that the days are getting longer after Winter Solstice? Is the reason for the season really about Sol Invictus? And why don't protestants actually celebrate the birth of Christ in September? I mean we're not Shackled to the Catholic Church are we? If we wan't to be biblical why not get away from December 25? I think I will make a bumper sticker that says "Sol Invictus is the reason for the Season"
 
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Johnv

New Member
Christ is in Christmas. I don't need to wear that on my sleeve for the other 6 weeks of the end-of-year holiday season. It's much ado about nothing. We complain that Christmas is too commercialized, but then complain that Christ isn't in Christmas. We can't have it both ways.

And if anyone gives me grief about my assortment of Disney ornaments on my tree, I'll bop 'em a good one.
 
Thinkingstuff

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
I'm just thinking here. I have no problem with a Christmas Tree but is Christmas really about Christ or Sol Invictus?
 
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Johnv

New Member
Thinkingstuff said:
I'm just thinking here. I have no problem with a Christmas Tree but is Christmas really about Christ or Sol Invictus?
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Good question. Paul says let no one judge you according to your celebration of feast days. The Christmas season is what we make of it. We should permits that same liberty to others.
 
Thinkingstuff

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Johnv said:
Good question. Paul says let no one judge you according to your celebration of feast days. The Christmas season is what we make of it. We should permits that same liberty to others.
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Whats the context of Pauls discource? And should we be so dogmatic about Christmas. I know people who want to revolt just because they see stores that have X-Mas on their windows. When they are in reality fight over whether we celebrate Christ on a highjacked pagan holiday? What's wrong with moving it to September?
 
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Johnv

New Member
Thinkingstuff said:
Whats the context of Pauls discource?
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Paul's context is noted at the beginning of the passage: People esteem different days differently, and to the Christian it's of no account who celebrates what and when.

I know people who want to revolt just because they see stores that have X-Mas on their windows.
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Funny thing about that. The "X" in Xmas actually comes from the Greek letter "X", or chi (pronounced "kee"). It's the koine abbreviation for "Christus". "X-Mas" is actually a proper rendering of "Christmas". So if you know anyone who is opposed to it, they're displaying their ignorance.
 
Thinkingstuff

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Johnv said:
Paul's context is noted at the beginning of the passage: People esteem different days differently, and to the Christian it's of no account who celebrates what and when.


Funny thing about that. The "X" in Xmas actually comes from the Greek letter "X", or chi (pronounced "kee"). It's the koine abbreviation for "Christus". "X-Mas" is actually a proper rendering of "Christmas". So if you know anyone who is opposed to it, they're displaying their ignorance.
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Chapter and verse please.
 
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Johnv

New Member
According to Paul in Roman 14:5, one person esteems one day above another, while another esteems every day alike. He says to let person be fully persuaded in his own mind as to how he esteems the days.

Regarding the "X", Take for example the acrostic "IXOYE" (Iota, Chi, Theta, Upsilon, and Sigma.) The acrostic stands for “Iesous Christos, Theou Uios, Soter" ("Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior").
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
Thinkingstuff said:
I'm just thinking here. I have no problem with a Christmas Tree but is Christmas really about Christ or Sol Invictus?
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What it originally was doesn't matter. What matters is whom you are honoring when Dec. 25 rolls around now - is it the sun, pagan gods, false gods and christs, or the true Jesus Christ?

Pagans are always saying that Christians stole their holiday. Well, maybe. But it's in the nature of redemption that Christ takes over everything - eventually, the whole world. Our BC and AD, and even our year count, are based on Jesus Christ, too.
 
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Johnv

New Member
Marcia said:
Pagans are always saying that Christians stole their holiday.
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They'd be wrong, because ancient pagan religions have long since dies out. Modern paganism is an articially contrived religion, which lifts bits and pieces from ancient pagan myth and folkore. It's still paganism, but it's not the same as ancient paganism.
Our BC and AD, and even our year count, are based on Jesus Christ, too.
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They used to be, but aren't anymore. That's simply due to the fact that the calendar has had to be adjusted. Christ was born circa 4bc, and since the notation is based on an inaccuracy (no year "0"), the use of BCE/ACE, or BCE/CE, has slowly been replacing BC/AD over the last few centuries. CE stands for "Christian Era", "Common Era", or "Current Era" depending on its context and usage. If the BC/AD calendar were to shift again, the BCE/CE calendar would remain fixed where it is now.

(this is the part where someone chimes in objecting to the use of CE, but there's not really much to that objection.)
 
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ccrobinson

Active Member
Johnv said:
There should also be Festivus, for the rest-of-us.
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Is it time for the Feats of Strength yet? Or, maybe it's time for the Airing of Grievances? I've got a lot of problems with you people!!
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
Johnv said:
They'd be wrong, because ancient pagan religions have long since dies out. Modern paganism is an articially contrived religion, which lifts bits and pieces from ancient pagan myth and folkore. It's still paganism, but it's not the same as ancient paganism.
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Whether modern paganism is contrived or not does not keep them from saying this. I get emails from them all the time saying this. And modern polytheism is very much an echo of ancient pagan beliefs; it's really the same thing in a more modern form and without the child sacrifice. The ancient heresies are still here in the forms of the JW and Mormon faiths (and others); gnostic beliefs are here in the New Age, etc. The bad stuff never goes away. These beliefs just take different forms.


hey used to be, but aren't anymore. That's simply due to the fact that the calendar has had to be adjusted. Christ was born circa 4bc, and since the notation is based on an inaccuracy (no year "0"), the use of BCE/ACE, or BCE/CE, has slowly been replacing BC/AD over the last few centuries. CE stands for "Christian Era", "Common Era", or "Current Era" depending on its context and usage. If the BC/AD calendar were to shift again, the BCE/CE calendar would remain fixed where it is now
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Yes, I know about the Common Era thing. But for about 2,000 years, we used BC and AD.
 
Thinkingstuff

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Johnv said:
According to Paul in Roman 14:5, one person esteems one day above another, while another esteems every day alike. He says to let person be fully persuaded in his own mind as to how he esteems the days.

Regarding the "X", Take for example the acrostic "IXOYE" (Iota, Chi, Theta, Upsilon, and Sigma.) The acrostic stands for “Iesous Christos, Theou Uios, Soter" ("Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior").
Click to expand...

I was considering that verse and it seems to be discussing Christian distinctiveness counter Judaism. Paul doesn't want the Jews forcing their observances upon the Christians. Just because Theodocius I outlawed paganism in the Empire doesn't it's ok for Christians to Hijack the Festival of Sol Invictus and call it Christ Mass for an erronious date of Jesus birth.
 
Thinkingstuff

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Marcia said:
What it originally was doesn't matter. What matters is whom you are honoring when Dec. 25 rolls around now - is it the sun, pagan gods, false gods and christs, or the true Jesus Christ?

Pagans are always saying that Christians stole their holiday. Well, maybe. But it's in the nature of redemption that Christ takes over everything - eventually, the whole world. Our BC and AD, and even our year count, are based on Jesus Christ, too.
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They are right because Jesus isn't the reason for the season historically it was Sol Invictus. Sol Invictus is the reason for the season or more appropiately an astrological event were daylight becomes longer. The Jesus "tag" was added latter to make it more palpable to a politically correct empire. So you're celebrating a holiday to meet the definition of political correctness 1600 years ago!!!!! And it is a pagan holiday ahhh!!!! You guys are following the Roman Empire and not Christ!!!! You're no better than the Papist!!!!! :smilewinkgrin:
 
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