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Christology

Eliyahu said:
I already told you this. If Jesus raised Himself from the dead, then He was no longer dead. Because the dead man cannot raise the other dead. If anyone can do some miracle, he was no longer dead. In you logic, you are denying that Jesus died completely, and may be you are believing Jesus just fainted, right?

This is the most common response by the natural man when they hear that God the Son raised Christ from the dead. I briefly explained to you what happens at death earlier, but you denied it. Others have explained the same thing in different threads, and yet you denied it there as well. Here is a larger explanation of this for you.

God is a Spirit. Jesus Christ is the merging of God who is Spirit with man who is flesh. Upon death of a man, the spirit and soul depart from the flesh, yet they do not cease to exist, they are merely separated, some are in hell at the moment others are in heaven (so-called for simplicity sake). Death refers to separation; the body of Jesus on the cross was separated from the spirit and soul of the man Christ Jesus. Also, on the Cross, God the Son experienced separation from God the Father, and yet remained fully one God. Christ’s body having been separated from His spirit and soul, along with the divinity of Christ being separated from God the Father, yet He remained fully one with the one indivisible God. With resurrection power, God the Son along with God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit, all partook in the resurrection of Christ. This is known as the mystery of the cross, and is also known as the foolishness of the cross which human reasoning fails to fully comprehend.

That is the most concise way I can explain it.

Eliyahu said:
Time runs well and I am very much glad that you won't become the Great Judge on the Day of Great Judgment, but you will be one of the defendants as well.
I am a pushover compared to the one in whom you deny resurrection power. Will you stand before the One who has firmly stated, “I will raise it up”, and call Him a liar to His face?

Eliyahu said:
I am very much convinced about my salvation since September 1973, and this month is the 34th aniversary of it, and I am very much thankful to my personal savior Jesus Christ who is my physical Savior as well. I believe in the Blood of Jesus Christ shed at the Cross, and His Death at the Cross in my stead, and I believe that I was crucified with Christ and live no longer but Christ lives in me. I am not very much concerned about how we distinguish the Godheads for each work or how we should say Trinity worked together etc. That has not been issues in my life and God helps me in my life all the time, and His Blood testifies my name. Therefore you don't have to worry about my salvation, though I appreciate you for your kindness, Sir.
Those are fine words, and I have heard them often, but the fruit you display is very much opposite to your proclamation. That is what happens when one believes in a different Jesus than the one revealed in scripture; their profession comes without resurrection power.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


BGTF
 
TCGreek said:
1. While Eliyahu and I have been on opposing sides of several debates, I must agree with his use of the scriptural data to distinguish each member of the Trinity in the resurrection of Christ.

2. Like the Incarnation, there's much to the Resurrection of Christ that has escaped us and will continue to do so.

3. But as long as we maintain that there is one God, with three personalities, yet each being fully God, then we have no problem.

4. For example, when Paul uses God, he usually means the Father, for the evidence of his writings bear this out.

5. I do not believe "spirit" in 1 Pet 3:18 is referring to the Holy Spirit. Please note the obvious parallelism, which is lost in most versions.

Perhaps you will believe it if John Owen says it.

Chapter 4: Work of the Holy Spirit In and On the Human Nature of Christ

Ninthly, There was a peculiar work of the Holy Spirit in his resurrection , this being the completing act in laying the foundation of the church, whereby Christ entered into his rest, — the great testimony given unto the finishing of the work of redemption, with the satisfaction of God therein, and his acceptation of the person of the Redeemer. It is, on various accounts, assigned distinctly to each person in the Trinity; and this not only as all the external works of God are undivided, each person being equally concerned in their operation, but also upon the account of their especial respect unto and interest in the work of redemption, in the manner before declared. Unto the Father it is ascribed, on the account of his authority, and the declaration therein of Christ's perfect accomplishment of the work committed unto him: Acts 2:24,
"Him hath God raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it."

It is the Father who is spoken of, and he is said, as in other places, to raise Christ from the dead; but this he doth with respect unto "his loosing the pains of death," —
<START GREEK>lu/sa$ ta\$ w)di=na$ tu= qana/tou
<END GREEK> . These are the <START HEBREW>tw#m*Áyl@b=j#<END HEBREW>, which, with a little alteration of one vowel, signify the "sorrows of death," or the "cords of death;" for <START HEBREW>t!w#m*Qyl@b=j#<END HEBREW> are the "sorrows of death," and <START HEBREW>tw#m*Áyl@b=j#<END HEBREW> are the "cords of death." See Ps 18:4; 116:3. And the "sorrows of death" here intended were the "cords" of it, — that is, the power it had to bind the Lord Christ for a season under it; for the "pains of death," that is, the
<START GREEK>w)di=ne$
<END GREEK>, "tormenting pains," ended in his death itself. But the consequents of them are here reckoned unto them, or the continuance under the power of death, according unto the sentence of the law. These God loosed, when, the law being fully satisfied, the sentence of it was taken off, and the Lord Christ was acquitted from its whole charge. This was the act of God the Father, as the supreme rector and judge of all. Hence he is said to "raise him from the dead," as the judge by his order delivereth an acquitted prisoner or one who hath answered the law. The same work he also takes unto himself: John 10:17,18,
"I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again."

For although men by violence took away his life, when "with wicked hands they crucified and slew him," Acts 2:23; 3:15, yet because they had neither authority nor ability so to do without his own consent, he saith no man did, or could, take away his life, — that is, against his will, by power over him, as the lives of other men are taken away; for this neither angels nor men could do. So, also, although the Father is said to raise him from the dead by taking off the sentence of the law, which he had answered, yet he himself also took his life again by an act of the love, care, and power of his divine nature, his living again being an act of his person, although the human nature only died. But the peculiar efficiency in the reuniting of his most holy soul and body was an effect of the power of the Holy Spirit : 1 Peter 3:18, "He was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit;"
<START GREEK>zwopoihqei\$ de\ tw=| Pneu/mati
<END GREEK>, — "he was restored to life by the Spirit." And this was that Spirit whereby he preached unto them that were disobedient in the days of Noah, verses 19,20; or that Spirit of Christ which was in the prophets from the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:11; by which he preached in Noah unto that disobedient generation, 2 Peter 2:5, whereby the Spirit of God strove for a season with those inhabitants of the old world, Gen 6:3; —that is, the Holy Spirit of God. To the same purpose we are instructed by our apostle: Rom 8:11, "If the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you;" —"God shall quicken our mortal bodies also by the same Spirit whereby he raised Christ from the dead;" for so the relation of the one work to the other requires the words to be understood. And he asserts again the same expressly, Eph 1:17-20. He prays that God would give his Holy Spirit unto them as a Spirit of wisdom and revelation, verse 17. The effects thereof in them and upon them are described, verse 18. And this he desires that they may so be made partakers of as that, by the work of the Spirit of God in themselves, renewing and quickening them, they might have an experience of that exceeding greatness of his power which he put forth in the Lord Christ when he raised him from the dead. And the evidence or testimony given unto his being the Son of God, by his resurrection from the dead, is said to be "according to the Spirit of holiness," or the Holy Spirit , Rom 1:4. He was positively declared to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead,
<START GREEK>e)n duna/mei kata\ Pneu=ma a(giwsu/nh$
<END GREEK>, — that is, by the "powerful working of the Holy Spirit ." This, also, is the intendment of that expression, 1 Tim 3:16, "Justified in the Spirit." God was "manifest in the flesh," by his incarnation and passion therein; and "justified in the Spirit," by a declaration of his acquitment from the sentence of death and all the evils which he underwent, with the reproaches wherewith he was contemptuously used, by his quickening and resurrection from the dead, through the mighty and effectual working of the Spirit of God.

BTW: It is one God, three persons, NOT personalities.


BGTF
 

TCGreek

New Member
ByGracethroughFaith said:
Perhaps you will believe it if John Owen says it.

1. I have great respect for John Owen, but he is not my standard, Scripture is. When he agrees with Scripture, then I espouse his writings, when he doesn't, then I part with him.

2. I believe Owen's use of 1 Peter 3:18 is incorrect, pneuma is not speaking of the Holy Spirit, but of the spirit. Consult several versions and commentaries on this.

3. I believe the Holy was involved in the resurrection of Jesus. If I didn't, Rom 1:4 and 8:11 would make no sense to me. But I don't believe we have to prove that from a problematic verse as 1 Peter 3:18.

BTW: It is one God, three persons, NOT personalities.

4. Are we speaking of persons like ourselves? If NO, then it's a riddle of semantics and there's no harm in personalities.
 
TCGreek said:
1. I have great respect for John Owen, but he is not my standard, Scripture is. When he agrees with Scripture, then I espouse his writings, when he doesn't, then I part with him.
You are free to do that.

TCGreek said:
2. I believe Owen's use of 1 Peter 3:18 is incorrect, pneuma is not speaking of the Holy Spirit, but of the spirit. Consult several versions and commentaries on this.
Torrey's Topical Textbook also has it listed as a proof-text of the doctrine part way down the link.
http://www.bible-topics.com/Resurrection-of-Christ-The.html

TCGreek said:
3. I believe the Holy [Spirit] was involved in the resurrection of Jesus. If I didn't, Rom 1:4 and 8:11 would make no sense to me. But I don't believe we have to prove that from a problematic verse as 1 Peter 3:18.
At least you agree that the Holy Spirit was involved in the resurrection of Christ.

TCGreek said:
4. Are we speaking of persons like ourselves? If NO, then it's a riddle of semantics and there's no harm in personalities.
A personality is merely an attribute of a person, and does not encompass the whole person, the word personality has been tossed around in modalism. It is just like saying a square is always a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square, same idea.


BGTF
 

TCGreek

New Member
ByGracethroughFaith said:
You are free to do that.


Torrey's Topical Textbook also has it listed as a proof-text of the doctrine part way down the link.
http://www.bible-topics.com/Resurrection-of-Christ-The.html


At least you agree that the Holy Spirit was involved in the resurrection of Christ.

1. The Bible says so in Romans 1:4 and 8:11.


A personality is merely an attribute of a person, and does not encompass the whole person, the word personality has been tossed around in modalism. It is just like saying a square is always a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square, same idea.


BGTF

2. Then person it is.
 

Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
ByGracethroughFaith said:
This is the most common response by the natural man when they hear that God the Son raised Christ from the dead. I briefly explained to you what happens at death earlier, but you denied it. Others have explained the same thing in different threads, and yet you denied it there as well. Here is a larger explanation of this for you.

God is a Spirit. Jesus Christ is the merging of God who is Spirit with man who is flesh. Upon death of a man, the spirit and soul depart from the flesh, yet they do not cease to exist, they are merely separated, some are in hell at the moment others are in heaven (so-called for simplicity sake). Death refers to separation; the body of Jesus on the cross was separated from the spirit and soul of the man Christ Jesus. Also, on the Cross, God the Son experienced separation from God the Father, and yet remained fully one God. Christ’s body having been separated from His spirit and soul, along with the divinity of Christ being separated from God the Father, yet He remained fully one with the one indivisible God.
No problem.
With resurrection power, God the Son along with God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit, all partook in the resurrection of Christ. This is known as the mystery of the cross, and is also known as the foolishness of the cross which human reasoning fails to fully comprehend.
That is the most concise way I can explain it.

I already mentioned, both can be correct. God the Father raised Him, or Trinity raised Him. However, usually the Bible states simply "God raised His Son" Then you said I am heretic going to the Hell because I don't know the Trinity and Godheads. That is wrong.

The most important aspect of the Cross is the Absolute Obedience to God the Father by His Son. Jesus obeyed His Father unto death, even the death at the Cross. He could come down from the Cross any time. But He didn't. Even at the time of Resurrection, He could have raised Himself. However, He committed Himself to His Father. I am sure that Jesus waited for the Raise by His Father in His absolute obedience, because such absolute obedience is the part of the divine nature as well. Therefore God the Father justly raised His Son, which is the common statement in ac 3:13-26 and many other verses of Bible, which you are eager to deny now, to insist that the raise by the Trinity is the only answer.

I am a pushover compared to the one in whom you deny resurrection power. Will you stand before the One who has firmly stated, “I will raise it up”, and call Him a liar to His face?

How many times should I explain to you about this? Read my previous posts and the explanation about this.

Those are fine words, and I have heard them often, but the fruit you display is very much opposite to your proclamation. That is what happens when one believes in a different Jesus than the one revealed in scripture; their profession comes without resurrection power.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

BGTF

I don't need your approval. The acceptance and approval by God is more than enough for me. I am glad that you will not sit on the Seat of the Great Judge on the Day of Great Judgment. Take care of yourself. Sir.
 
Elihayu said:
I already mentioned, both can be correct. God the Father raised Him, or Trinity raised Him. However, usually the Bible states simply "God raised His Son" Then you said I am heretic going to the Hell because I don't know the Trinity and Godheads. That is wrong.
This isn’t an either/or case, God the Father is PART of the Trinity so yes He raised Christ, but God the Son and God the Holy are ALSO part of the Trinity. You use the same logic as the JW’s who only see verses depicting Christ as a man and deny those that depict Him as God.

If one denies the Trinity in word or practice, they are going to hell. Now you are free to go where you want, but I won’t stand idly by while you publicly trample the work of the second person of the Trinity, when you deny operation of God the Son in the resurrection of Christ.

The only acceptable answer with regards to the resurrection of Christ that does not deny the divinity of Christ and the person of the Holy Spirit is this:
God the Father raised Christ, God the Son raised Christ, and God the Holy Spirit raised Christ. It is the operation all three persons of the one indivisible God. Likewise the three persons of the one indivisible God work in harmony in the salvation of men.

Elihayu said:
Therefore God the Father justly raised His Son, which is the common statement in ac 3:13-26 and many other verses of Bible, which you are eager to deny now, to insist that the raise by the Trinity is the only answer.
The Trinity is the ONLY acceptable answer!

Elihayu said:
How many times should I explain to you about this? Read my previous posts and the explanation about this.
Your previous explanation is heresy.

BGTF
 

Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
ByGracethroughFaith said:
This isn’t an either/or case, God the Father is PART of the Trinity so yes He raised Christ, but God the Son and God the Holy are ALSO part of the Trinity. You use the same logic as the JW’s who only see verses depicting Christ as a man and deny those that depict Him as God.

If one denies the Trinity in word or practice, they are going to hell. Now you are free to go where you want, but I won’t stand idly by while you publicly trample the work of the second person of the Trinity, when you deny operation of God the Son in the resurrection of Christ.

The only acceptable answer with regards to the resurrection of Christ that does not deny the divinity of Christ and the person of the Holy Spirit is this:
God the Father raised Christ, God the Son raised Christ, and God the Holy Spirit raised Christ. It is the operation all three persons of the one indivisible God. Likewise the three persons of the one indivisible God work in harmony in the salvation of men.


The Trinity is the ONLY acceptable answer!


Your previous explanation is heresy.

BGTF

You have proven this man is a Heretic !

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
 
Eliyahu said:
You have proven this man is a Heretic !

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Paul also recorded that the Holy Spirit raised Christ, and since Christ Himself testified He would raise His own body, there is no reason to look for further testimony

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

John 2:19-21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

It is Eliyahu who is holding to heresy.

Since it has been determined that you can't see the above doctrine, can you see this one?

In Gen 17:1 Abraham saw God the Son.


BGTF
 
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BobRyan

Well-Known Member
ByGracethroughFaith said:
The perfect example is Eliyahu. Though it is plain in scripture, he can't see the operation of the Trinity in the resurrection of Christ. He can't see that the Holy Spirit is to testify of Christ so that the believer will have no misunderstanding of either the person or work of Christ, he also claims soul sleep for the dead and other heresies.

Your tactic seems to be to use the term "heresy" or "heretic" just as the RCC did during the dark ages whenever one of your ideas is challenged.

Constantly slinging pejorative terms "proves nothing" except that it reminds the reader to check and see if your argument is going weak.

The sad part is that he goes around telling everyone else that they are 'drunk with the wine of the RCC'; while at the same time he does not even understand the most basic of Christian doctrines.

Actually he made a good point against your stance which you keep ducking. Scripture does NOT say that Christ turned to the thief on the cross and then lectured him on the trinity before dying.

I for one fully agree with the Trinitrian view and I also agree that all three members of the Godhead were involved in the work, ministry and even resurrection of Christ.

But you are going to some pretty wild extremes.

In John 16 Christ said to His OWN "I have many MORE things to tell you but you can not bear them" and then predicted the work of the Holy Spirit as He continued to reveal more truth to them. But wait a minute!! you say the Holy Spirit must do a full and complete core-dump of all data on the infinite truths regarding the Trinity at the moment of salvation OR the person can not be saved at all. That is extreme.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan said:
Your tactic seems to be to use the term "heresy" or "heretic" just as the RCC did during the dark ages whenever one of your ideas is challenged.
The operation of the Trinity in the resurrection of Christ is not MY idea, it was God's.

BobRyan said:
Constantly slinging pejorative terms "proves nothing" except that it reminds the reader to check and see if your argument is going weak.
That sounds just like what you just did above. If you believe you are wiser than me in this regard, would you not show me a better example?

BobRyan said:
Actually he made a good point against your stance which you keep ducking. Scripture does NOT say that Christ turned to the thief on the cross and then lectured him on the trinity before dying.
The thief, whatever he knew, certainly didn't set himself up as a teacher going around telling people to deny operation of the Son of God in the resurrection.
When someone doesn't know some truth about Christ but wants to learn it, they are treated differently than someone who rejects a truth about Christ and openly teaches to deny it.

BobRyan said:
I for one fully agree with the Trinitrian view and I also agree that all three members of the Godhead were involved in the work, ministry and even resurrection of Christ.
If you really do agree, I find it interesting that you choose to condemn the method of preaching instead of trying to convince Eliyahu to turn from his error. This isn't some doctrine of lesser importance like clothing, it is MAJOR. It is ultimately a denial of the work of Christ! But instead of trying to help a person in that condition, you choose to post against the method of preaching. Very interesting indeed!

BobRyan said:
But you are going to some pretty wild extremes.
I haven't even begun to get wild yet.

BobRyan said:
In John 16 Christ said to His OWN "I have many MORE things to tell you but you can not bear them" and then predicted the work of the Holy Spirit as He continued to reveal more truth to them. But wait a minute!! you say the Holy Spirit must do a full and complete core-dump of all data on the infinite truths regarding the Trinity at the moment of salvation OR the person can not be saved at all. That is extreme.
Being ignorant of a certain truth is one thing, to rebel against a truth when it is revealed is another. When this doctrine was brought up, some may not have known it, but the Holy Spirit would have testified to the truth of the matter, and they would have received it.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me :


BGTF
 

Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
ByGracethroughFaith said:
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
BGTF

I already mentioned your ignorance of Greek language caused the misunderstanding of Ro 8:11

Let me re-translate for you

But if the Spirit of the Raiser ( God the Father) who raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He ( God the Father) who raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.

John 2:19 is the only resort for you, as you don't understand this truth:

Phil 2

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name


In your theology, God the Father Himself also took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men, and God the Father was crucified at the Cross.

If you don't believe that, you are denying the Trinity, and you are heretic according to your own theology, right?

God sent His Son Jesus to this world to save you.

In your theology, it is a heresy because it should be this:

God the Son sent Jesus to this world to save you. If you deny it, you are denying Trinity, and therefore you become a Heretic, right?
 

soninme

Member
god the father sent jesus to earth to redeem us by his blood and the works of the cross , jesus did the will of his father when he was here , read thebook of john anf you will see this :jesus:
 

TCGreek

New Member
Eliyahu said:
I already mentioned your ignorance of Greek language caused the misunderstanding of Ro 8:11

Let me re-translate for you

But if the Spirit of the Raiser ( God the Father) who raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He ( God the Father) who raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.

John 2:19 is the only resort for you, as you don't understand this truth:

Phil 2

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name


In your theology, God the Father Himself also took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men, and God the Father was crucified at the Cross.

If you don't believe that, you are denying the Trinity, and you are heretic according to your own theology, right?

God sent His Son Jesus to this world to save you.

In your theology, it is a heresy because it should be this:

God the Son sent Jesus to this world to save you. If you deny it, you are denying Trinity, and therefore you become a Heretic, right?

Is this really his theology on the Trinity?
 

Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
TCGreek said:
Is this really his theology on the Trinity?

Yes, that's what we are arguing about from the beginning. Read thru the Posts.
He asked me " who raised Jesus from the dead?" I answered "God raised Jesus from the dead." Then he said I am wrong and should go to the Hell because I don't have the right spirit, saying that Romans 8:11 tells us that the Spirit raised Him from the dead, and Trinity worked there.
Then I said, Both can be right, God raised Jesus from the dead, and God in Trinity may have worked together.
He condemns anyone who confess that God raised His Son from the dead, claiming that one should have the notion that God in Trinity has raised Jesus.

Trinity raised Jesus, this is the only legitimate answer according to his theology. Because Jesus said, he would raise the temple in three days ( Jn 2:19) If anyone doesn't know this crucial truth, he or she is condemned to go to the Hell and they are Heretic. That's his Litmus Paper for the discernment of Salvation.

That is his theology.

Read thru all the arguments above, they are very much interesting.
 

Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
BGTF,

Did Jesus say that He would raise the temple in three days while He was alive or did He say that while He was dead?

I ask this question because your stronghold to claiming that God the Son raised Jesus from the dead is John 2:19, and I already told you that if anyone could raise the dead, then that person was no longer dead but was already alive.

Do you claim that Jesus died only a half death, only the humanity died and the divinity was still alive?
 

TCGreek

New Member
Eliyahu said:
Yes, that's what we are arguing about from the beginning. Read thru the Posts.
He asked me " who raised Jesus from the dead?" I answered "God raised Jesus from the dead." Then he said I am wrong and should go to the Hell because I don't have the right spirit, saying that Romans 8:11 tells us that the Spirit raised Him from the dead, and Trinity worked there.
Then I said, Both can be right, God raised Jesus from the dead, and God in Trinity may have worked together.
He condemns anyone who confess that God raised His Son from the dead, claiming that one should have the notion that God in Trinity has raised Jesus.

Trinity raised Jesus, this is the only legitimate answer according to his theology. Because Jesus said, he would raise the temple in three days ( Jn 2:19) If anyone doesn't know this crucial truth, he or she is condemned to go to the Hell and they are Heretic. That's his Litmus Paper for the discernment of Salvation.

That is his theology.

Read thru all the arguments above, they are very much interesting.

1. I've read the posts. This label is uncalled for; I do not see you denying the deity of Christ.

2. In fact, outside of John's narrative, every reference to the resurrection of Christ points to the Father doing the raising, with the instrumentality of the Spirit in one instance (Rom 1:4).

3. Earlier I used Romans 8:11 to show that the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, but my use was incorrect, after looking at it again. It is the Father who does the raising in this verse.

4. The Greek on Romans 1:4 is not too clear either, but the versions seem to involve the Spirit in Christ's resurrection.
 
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BobRyan

Well-Known Member
TCGreek said:
1. I've read the posts. This label is uncalled for; I do not see you denying the deity of Christ.

2. In fact, outside of John's narrative, every reference to the resurrection of Christ points to the Father doing the raising, with the instrumentality of the Spirit in one instances (Rom 1:4).

.

And more than that - it is hard to argue that all Christians must have the same view of it as BGTF or else be doomed to the flames of hell.

So while I happen to agree that all three were involved with this event just as all three were invovled in the Gen 1-2:3 creation event "Let US make man in OUR own imagine" and yet John 1 points to Christ as the Creator of all on this earth -- still I have a hard to seeing this as a formula for dooming other Christians.

in Christ,

Bob
 
TCGreek said:
1. I've read the posts. This label is uncalled for; I do not see you denying the deity of Christ.

2. In fact, outside of John's narrative, every reference to the resurrection of Christ points to the Father doing the raising, with the instrumentality of the Spirit in one instance (Rom 1:4).

3. Earlier I used Romans 8:11 to show that the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, but my use was incorrect, after looking at it again. It is the Father who does the raising in this verse.

4. The Greek on Romans 1:4 is not too clear either, but the versions seem to involve the Spirit in Christ's resurrection.

Decide for yourself.

This is the company of others who denied Christ's power over His own resurrection.

Matt 26:60-62 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, 61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
KJV

They couldn't believe he would partake in it either.

Here is what Matthew Henry has to say on John 2:19

John 2:19
[2.] He foretels his death and resurrection, not in plain terms, as he often did to his disciples, but in figurative expressions; as afterwards, when he gave this for a sign, he called it the sign of the prophet Jonas, so here, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Thus he spoke in parables to those who were willingly ignorant, that they might not perceive, Matt 13:13-14. Those that will not see shall not see. Nay, this figurative speech used here proved such a stumbling-block to them that it was produced in evidence against him at his trial to prove him a blasphemer. Matt 26:60-61. Had they humbly asked him the meaning of what he said, he would have told them, and it had been a savour of life unto life to them, but they were resolved to cavil, and it proved a savour of death unto death. They that would not be convinced were hardened, and the manner of expressing this prediction occasioned the accomplishment of the prediction itself. First, He foretels his death by the Jews' malice, in these words, Destroy you this temple; that is, "You will destroy it, I know you will. I will permit you to destroy it." Note, Christ, even at the beginning of his ministry, had a clear foresight of all his sufferings at the end of it, and yet went on cheerfully in it. It is good, at setting out, to expect the worst. Secondly, He foretels his resurrection by his own power: In three days I will raise it up. There were others that were raised, but Christ raised himself, resumed his own life.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)


BGTF
 

TCGreek

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ByGracethroughFaith said:
Decide for yourself.

This is the company of others who denied Christ's power over His own resurrection.

Matt 26:60-62 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, 61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
KJV

They couldn't believe he would partake in it either.

Here is what Matthew Henry has to say on John 2:19




BGTF

I believe that the Father, the Son and the Spirit all part of the resurrection of Jesus. Does that put your soul at rest?
 
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