Church Music and Singing

[Scripture More Accurately]

Yes, you did.
The Scripture (singular) cited was 2 Chronicles 29 verse 30.


Okay, I should have added New Testament before Scripture.
My bad.
So, what New Testament scripture do your church use to justify their use in New Testament church worship.

These are not what is being discussed.
Music is.

Where in my OP did I say a church cannot have musical instruments.
In the first New Testament church, as recorded in Scriptures, they did not use musical instruments.
They sang with their voices.
Even the Founder, Jesus Christ, sang with the voice.

In the Old Testament, not in the New.

Where does the NT say that we have to NT Scripture to justify the use of musical instruments in NT church worship?

Where does the NT teach that all OT teaching concerning musical instruments has been set aside and does not apply to the NT church?

Lack of mention concerning what NT believers did or did not do is not proof of absence.

 

[Reynolds]

Is this a dead horse ? wouldn't be a surprise if it were. The board is littered with corpses of dead horses. lol. Anyway, most everybody in a church, and almost every church that exists within this anomaly called "Christendom" claim some sort or measure of affinity to the New Testament church founded by the Savior along the shores of Ceasaria Philippi and empowered on Pentecost. Or, they claim to be the New Testament church.
But I find the following to be not among the doctrines and practices of the New Testament church:

• 1. Universal Atonement
• 2. Judas included in the beneficiaries of the shed blood of Christ
• 3. Tithes
• 4. Sunday Schools
• 5. Seminary education
• 6. Choirs, special numbers, musical instruments.

Let's just focus, for now, on number 6, particularly musical instruments.
Why do you use them if you use them ?
What scripture do you find supports your use of them ?
Keep it civil.

#6? Tradition. Pure tradition.

 

[timdabap]

Where does the NT say that we have to NT Scripture to justify the use of musical instruments in NT church worship?

If you do not believe your church is rooted in, descended from, or IS a New Testament church, fine, you don't have to.
But if you do......

Where does the NT teach that all OT teaching concerning musical instruments has been set aside and does not apply to the NT church?

Did you read the quoted Scripture ? 2 Chronicles 29:30 ?
While the burnt offering (Jesus) was being offered, the command of Hezekiah was to use the instruments of David....
After the burn offering was sacrificed (which Jesus Himself announced at the cross), the command changed from man-made instruments to the voice singing the psalms written by the psalms writers.(old to new).
Have you ever read where Jesus told His disciples to gather instruments for their singing.
If the original church He founded is the pattern, then it is the pattern, from doctrines, to practice.

Lack of mention concerning what NT believers did or did not do is not proof of absence.

By the same token, because one or two gospel writers did not record Judas leaving when Jesus formally instituted the Lord's table does not mean Judas was included in the beneficiaries of Jesus' precious blood, as some say on this board.

 

[timdabap]

#6? Tradition. Pure tradition.

so chuck them all, because they're just.......traditions ?

 

[OnlyaSinner]

The latter part of 2 Chronicles 29:30 is indeed silent on the use of instruments. One may infer a change because instruments were noted earlier, but it remains an argument from silence, as is the non-citation of instruments in the NT. IMO, Christian liberty and the principles expounded in Romans 14 (even though music is not specifically addressed therein) mean that use/non-use of instrumental accompaniment is a preference, perhaps even a conviction, but not dogma. "Do all to the glory of God."

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

By the same token, because one or two gospel writers did not record Judas leaving when Jesus formally instituted the Lord's table does not mean Judas was included in the beneficiaries of Jesus' precious blood, as some say on this board.

This is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

If you do not believe your church is rooted in, descended from, or IS a New Testament church, fine, you don't have to.
But if you do......

It is a false notion to claim that for a church to be a NT church, only what is in the NT applies to what the church is supposed to do. Scripture itself refutes this notion in the NT itself when Paul and others repeatedly cite the OT in apostolic instruction to NT believers about what they are to do.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Did you read the quoted Scripture ? 2 Chronicles 29:30 ?
While the burnt offering (Jesus) was being offered, the command of Hezekiah was to use the instruments of David....
After the burn offering was sacrificed (which Jesus Himself announced at the cross), the command changed from man-made instruments to the voice singing the psalms written by the psalms writers.(old to new).
Have you ever read where Jesus told His disciples to gather instruments for their singing.
If the original church He founded is the pattern, then it is the pattern, from doctrines, to practice.

Yes, I have read that passage a few dozen times. It does not establish what you think it does.

Jesus taught His disciples to pray, "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Have you ever read the book of Revelation in which the glorified Jesus Himself reveals that the perfect worship of heaven features the use of musical instruments in the worship of God?

Based on what Jesus has revealed about God's will being done in heavenly worship, we can be certain that God wants us to use musical instruments in worshiping Him on the earth.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Psalm 149

Praise Yahweh! Sing to Yahweh a new song, his praise in the assembly of the saints. 2 Let Israel rejoice in him who made them. Let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. 3 Let them praise his name in the dance! Let them sing praises to him with tambourine and harp! 4 For Yahweh takes pleasure in his people. He crowns the humble with salvation. 5 Let the saints rejoice in honor. Let them sing for joy on their beds. 6 May the high praises of God be in their mouths, and a two-edged sword in their hand, 7 to execute vengeance on the nations, and punishments on the peoples; 8 to bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 to execute on them the written judgment. All his saints have this honor. Praise Yah!

Pslam 150

raise Yah! Praise God in his sanctuary! Praise him in his heavens for his acts of power! 2 Praise him for his mighty acts! Praise him according to his excellent greatness! 3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet! Praise him with harp and lyre! 4 Praise him with tambourine and dancing! Praise him with stringed instruments and flute! 5 Praise him with loud cymbals! Praise him with resounding cymbals! 6 Let everything that has breath praise Yah! Praise Yah!

God LOVES the Praises of His children with musical instruments as seen in many places in the Old Testament. Why would He not like the same in the New Testament times?

The Greek ψαλμός (psalm), literally means, "a striking, twitching with the fingers, a striking of musical strings, song sung to musical accompaniment"

 

[Jerome]

Yes.
No less than the Reformed Baptist Seminary's dean says:

"one encounters a spectrum of stringed, percussion, and brass or wind instruments throughout the psalms. Accordingly, when someone asks me to articulate my position on the place of musical instrumentation in corporate worship, I simply tell them to read Psalm 150:

"Praise the LORD!
Praise God in his sanctuary;
Praise him in his mighty heavens!
Praise him for his mighty deeds;
Praise him according to his excellent greatness!
Praise him with trumpet sound;
Praise him with lute and harp!
Praise him with tambourine and dance;
Praise him with strings and pipe!
Praise him with sounding cymbals;
Praise him with loud clashing cymbals!
Let everything that has breath praise the LORD!
Praise the LORD! (ESV)"

 

[timdabap]

Yes, I have read that passage a few dozen times. It does not establish what you think it does.

yes, it does. But like God said to the rich man, "if Moses himself preached to your brothers, they wouldn't believe".
(snip)

Jesus taught His disciples to pray, "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Have you ever read the book of Revelation in which the glorified Jesus Himself reveals that the perfect worship of heaven features the use of musical instruments in the worship of God?

Jesus taught His disciples to pray, yes..............o.n. E.a.r.t.h
Are you already in heaven ? THE heaven of Genesis 1;1 ?
Where God is seated on his throne, and your faith is now sight ?
Until the, you can go ahead and sing with your crash-boom-bangs and convince yourself that is the New Testament church way, and we will sing with our voices and the heart as the only instrument, which is how Christ and His original church did it and we will follow that.

Based on what Jesus has revealed about God's will being done in heavenly worship, we can be certain that God wants us to use musical instruments in worshiping Him on the earth.

see previous answer.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Jesus taught His disciples to pray, yes..............o.n. E.a.r.t.h
Are you already in heaven ? THE heaven of Genesis 1;1 ?
Where God is seated on his throne, and your faith is now sight ?
Until the, you can go ahead and sing with your crash-boom-bangs and convince yourself that is the New Testament church way, and we will sing with our voices and the heart as the only instrument, which is how Christ and His original church did it and we will follow that.

This is bordering on the unintelligible. Jesus is in heaven, and He's the One who revealed in the book of Revelation that musical instruments are used in heavenly worship. If you deny that the book of Revelation is inspired NT Scripture revealed by Jesus Himself, it would be no surprise then that you would hold the views that you do.

If you accept that the book of Revelation is inspired NT Scripture revealed by Jesus Himself, then you have no basis to assert what you do.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

yes, it does. But like God said to the rich man, "if Moses himself preached to your brothers, they wouldn't believe".

No, it does not. You try to make an argument from the lack of mention in one passage determine everything, but it does not. God commands His people to use musical instruments in many passages that do not say anything about only doing so in connection with the offering of burnt offerings.

For example,

Psalm 33:1 Rejoice in the LORD, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright. 2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. 3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise. 4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth. 5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

There is zero biblical evidence or basis to establish that these commands in Psalm 33:2-3 to play musical instruments to God were only given to be followed for when offerings were made in the Temple.

 

[Salty]

I just realized something - when people sang in NT times - the Bible never mentioned that they used Microphones.
So that only means one thing - we are NOT to use microphones while singing in our churches.