Magnetic Poles
New Member
. . . with their hateful "discipline" and busybody attitudes drive people right into the arms of the feelgood preachers. Shame on them and their shunning!
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Churches Like These . . .
- Thread starter Magnetic Poles
- Start date
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Yay for Mrs Caskey.
That church has 70 members on Sunday mornings and Burrick does not see the need for deacons?
If the bylaws say there must be deacons, then Burrick is the one in the wrong and not Mrs Caskey.
Sounds like Burrick is rather puffed up.
That church has 70 members on Sunday mornings and Burrick does not see the need for deacons?
If the bylaws say there must be deacons, then Burrick is the one in the wrong and not Mrs Caskey.
Sounds like Burrick is rather puffed up.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I agree with Church discipline. However, the discipline in the case should not have been directed at Mrs Caskey. It should have been directed toward the pastor.
While the Bible does say 'Rebuke not an elder, but rather entreat him,' we must be careful not to allow a pastor to think he is getting by with sin. In that case, we should go to the pastor, show him in love what the Word of God says, or in this case, what the church bylaws say, and then encourage him to walk in the way shown.
A church with 70+ members should have had at least 2 if not more deacons to see to the needs of the congregants.
Plus, if the bylaws stated that deacons must be appointed, then the pastor should have adhered to the church bylaws. The pastor was wrong in not following the Church bylaws set forth... which I think all pastors should be aware of and should agree to at the time they are appointed to office
While the Bible does say 'Rebuke not an elder, but rather entreat him,' we must be careful not to allow a pastor to think he is getting by with sin. In that case, we should go to the pastor, show him in love what the Word of God says, or in this case, what the church bylaws say, and then encourage him to walk in the way shown.
A church with 70+ members should have had at least 2 if not more deacons to see to the needs of the congregants.
Plus, if the bylaws stated that deacons must be appointed, then the pastor should have adhered to the church bylaws. The pastor was wrong in not following the Church bylaws set forth... which I think all pastors should be aware of and should agree to at the time they are appointed to office
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The Archangel
Well-Known Member
standingfirminChrist said:
SFIC,
I completely agree with most of what you said (except for the deacon thing...I think elders are the biblical model)
You are exactly right, the by-laws must be followed by the pastor too. It would seem, according to the article, that there are two wrongs here--and I don't know which is the more wrong...I wasn't there.
I do think something is quite messed-up with the pastor alone (if it happened that way) deciding to remove her. After all, we are baptists and we do believe in congregational government. The removal should have been done by a congregational vote. In fact, the entire matter should have been investigated (this is where elders come in handy) and then brought before the congregation--for a vote to remove or not remove.
Anyway, the situation is not ideal.
Many Blessings,
The Archangel
The Scribe
New Member
I see nothing wrong with church discipline and it can go as far as excommunication.
1 Corinthians chapter 5 ( an unrepentant fornicator is expelled)
Romans 16:17-18 (KJV)
17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18: For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Matthew 18:15-17 (KJV)
15: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
but her so-called discord stems from her insistence on the pastor adhering to the church bylaws. I cannot see where that is discord at all.
Maybe we should be more concerned for what Scripture says than the by-laws.
standingfirminChrist said:
I agree with you mostly...
But you have your numbers wrong...
The membership was only 12 when she called for a board of deacons...
Yes a deacon or 2 are needed for 70, but if the pastor can't handle taking care of 12 people, the pastor doesn't need to be there...
She was wrong wanting a board of deacons with only 12 members?
Deacons don't run the church, they serve the people....
Can I have my own personal deacon?
tinytim said:
We are not told why she was pushing for deacons to be appointed beyond adherence to the church's by-laws. We have all heard the reports of what can happen when a pastor controls a church by himself. In conducting the church's business, deacons can provide the sort of checks and balances that can keep things above board. They can also help with part of the pastoral ministry of the church (e. g., visiting the sick and grieving) when the pastor is unavailable. These things are true regardless of the size of the congregation. I think this pastor overreacted. Having the woman removed by officers in the middle of a worship service is unconscionable.
Tim Reynolds
Timsings said:
No doubt about it, the pastor overreacted, but what kinds of checks and balances are needed in a church of only 12 members...
They should be able to check and balance themselves at that small level...
For instance, why would they need a finance committee... they were small enough to be their own committee!
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Also, from the article, even with 70+ members, the pastor still had no deacons. It does appear to be a control issue.
Maybe deacons voted him out of a previous church and he does not want that to happen again?
I know... speculation. But it does make one wonder why the pastor still refuses to abide by Church bylaws set forth?
Maybe deacons voted him out of a previous church and he does not want that to happen again?
I know... speculation. But it does make one wonder why the pastor still refuses to abide by Church bylaws set forth?
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standingfirminChrist
New Member
We can also give him the benefit of the doubt and say maybe none of the men in the Church were qualified to be deacons... although there seems to be no statement from him to indicate such.
On the side, I know a pastor in Tennessee who has never served communion in the 30+ years he has been pastoring. He has stated because of the closeness of the Church, he knows every single one in the congregation and says because of how they live, they would be eating and drinking damnation to themselves... and he will not serve it.:laugh:
Now, that is a concerned pastor. lol
On the side, I know a pastor in Tennessee who has never served communion in the 30+ years he has been pastoring. He has stated because of the closeness of the Church, he knows every single one in the congregation and says because of how they live, they would be eating and drinking damnation to themselves... and he will not serve it.:laugh:
Now, that is a concerned pastor. lol
Brother Bob
New Member
Well, if she had done something to have her membership taken should not mean that she can't still come to the church and worship, if she desires. I think its awful to deny her to even be in the building for services. She was not causing a disturbance by just sitting there. I think its terrible that some of the members would not sit by her also. The scripture says to "entreat them as brothers" or sisters in this case. Seems to me the whole church was out of order of something called "Love".
BBob,
BBob,
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saturneptune
New Member
Amen to that. I would have found enough support and that pastor and his belongings would have been out on the sidewalk before the day was over.Revmitchell said:
There are too many places to serve the Lord without putting up with garbage like that.