Common Misrepresentation of Arminianism

I disagree.

 

It's standard practice for Calvinists to misrepresent Armenian views by creating strawman arguments. It's standard practice for Armenians to misrepresent Calvinist views by creating strawman arguments.

 

My thoughts with regard to your misrepresentations is...nothing. THe only part of your post that I find of any value is what I am quoting here.

In previous threads you have seen me decry that new Arminians, old Arminians, quasi-Arminians, non-calvinists, or whatever else one wishes to call themselves, keep raising the same, tired-out old arguments that have been answered countless times.

Why is this frustrating? Because you raise this objection, this one I have quoted specifically, as if it has not been raised and answer before. But rather than re-hash out the reply, I will ask you a question or two.

1. Do you believe that God foreknows all things whatsover come to pass? I am not asking here is you believe he foreordains it, but at bare minimum, knows before whatever will happen in space and time. Most Arminians would say yes.

2. If God foreknows all things, including those who will choose Christ and those who will not, then how can the Gospel be sincerely offered to them whom God knows will most certainly reject it?

Those questions specifically relate to your OP. But I will go further...and speak to those who believe God knows from all eternity all things, whatever may come to pass.

Since you agree that God is All-Knowing, then how is it that man is free to reject the Gospel? If it was known in the mind of God from eternity past, who would recieve Christ and who would not, then the number of them that are saved is fixed, and the number of them that are damned is fixed. Not one person beyond the knowledge of God can added to the number of the redeemed, and not one who are known to God beforehand to reject the Gospel can be saved. To suppose different is to do harm the knowledge of God....and some have...hence, the spectre of Open Theism.

 

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous
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Do you sin?

Exodus 20:17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."
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Do you go a full month without coveting something on TV? I'm not sure I can go a full day, unless I'm sick in bed, but then I covet others mobility

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
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Do you always have Lovely mindsets? Do you praise everything that is worth of praise, or do you miss some?

Matt 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
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Are you perfect?

 

Do you always ask off topic questions when you respond to people?

 

Hello InTheLight,

I hope you are having a blessed day.

It was stated..

Is it also deceptive to command a person not to sin? All people sin...right? (see my list of verse)
Is it also deceptive to command people to not covet? We covet...do we not?

It seems to me that the logic is in error here. What do you think my dear brother in Christ?

 

Yep, in the eyes of the father who looks upon me and sees me clothed in the righteousness of his Son, I am PERFECT! Praise God! That is why it is called GOOD NEWS.[/QUOTE]

Yes we are...made holy in Him.

Do you covet? I do. I wish I could say I did not..but I do.

All people do. That does not make it right. But God commands us not to covet.


Is that unjust?

 

Hi Skandelon, I can see if you base Calvinism on the behavior of the posters on this forum how you might conclude they are a tad judgmental, assuming the problem is not with their beliefs, but with the beliefs of others. Hence, the majority of rebuttals include slurs against the character and qualifications of those who hold differing views.

But, as you know from personal experience, there are plenty of 5 point Calvinists who are secure in their beliefs and do not feel any enmity toward those who understand the bible differently.

I think Calvinism misrepresents the Arminian view in these ways:

If you do not believe in the Calvinist understanding of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, you do not believe Christ is all powerful.

If you think God credits your faith as righteousness rather than God supernaturally causes you to come to faith, you believe in a salvation of works based on merit.

 

You haven't really answered the questions. All you really did is raise more objections in your jihad against Calvinism. Calvinism, as you should know, is a response....not postulate. It is a response to Arminus and specifically the Remonstrants. So there is no old agruments as though Calvinist teaching was something new. The new kid on the block was when Arminius rejected the doctrines of his church and began teaching publicly against them.

To reiterate, all you did was really dodge the questions I raised, and understandably so because your position is no better off answering the dilemma than mine. I allowed the answer to include, NOT the calvinist understanding of foreknowledge, but what the Arminian owns as their own, namely, that God foreknow who would and would not received/accept Jesus.

I understand the need or desire to deflect. The Arminian has to answer your OPs objection just as much as the Calvinist. The Arminian system isn't excluded from the same perplexity. So the question and challenge STANDS:

If God foreknows who will and will not accept Jesus, then how can the Gospel be sincerely offered to those God foreknew would reject Him?

 

Hello Van,

I hope you are having a great day in the Lord.

Maybe you can add some of your wisdom to this. This is what has come up from the OP.

It was stated..

I wonder if ...Is it also deceptive to command a person not to sin? All people sin...right?

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

​

I don't think its deceptive, even though no one can keep from sinning. How about you Van? What do you think about this my brother in the Lord?


Also I kinda wondered about this.....Is it also deceptive to command people to not covet? We covet...do we not?

The bible says...

Exodus 20:17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

​

Brother Van, do you feel this is deceptive by God? I don't. What do you have to add to this?

It seems to me that the logic is in error here. What do you think my dear brother in Christ?

 

Hello Brother Skandelon, I hope you are well.

I believe your point was this. If a person does not have the ablity to do as Christ says, it would be unfair of God to command them to do.

Yes...I believe you said it like this..

Deceptive of God if God KNOWS they cannot.

Brother Skandelon...do you think God knows we will covet?
Do you think it knew we would covet when he commanded us not to covet?

I think God knows everything, both then and now.

I'm sure you don't think this is deceptive of God...do you?

 

So, in sum, you can't answer the question. Rather, you have moved into some weird doctrine where God is learning things from man. Just admit it to the board that you have departed from basic orthodoxy.

Of course I don't accept that God is informed by man. It's ludricous, illogical, and heterodox. And you think by your explainations here that somehow your going to convince me or another of your views? To follow you in your theological journey? Really? Your path has already taken you down the road of deny the omniscience of God.

Since your theology has already taken you into heterodox beliefs, I shun to imagine where you might end up and feel sad for those who may follow you.

And please don't interpret my metaphors as literal.

 

I'm sorry brother, I overlooked this. Please allow me.

Brother Skandelon, I do believe both are commandments.

1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.


Exodus 20:17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

To me Skandelon, these sure seem like commandments. Do you agree?

 

trying hard to see how allowing God to be ultimate judge of all things is really a bad thing...
How would a Gospel be in that man could decide totally IF Jesus death was in vain or not?

 

Yet another old chestnut from the Calvinism 101 library of the absurd, God does not mean what He says.

We are to love our neighbor and not envy or covet what God has bestowed on him or her.
Did God mean that? Surely not because He knew we were unable to love our neighbor as ourselves and rejoice in his blessings from God.

The nut of this absurdity, and nut is an apt word, is God does not mean it when He says what we should strive to do, because He knows we cannot do it perfectly. I kid you not, that is the argument. LOL

Now lets see if we are comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges. God through believers begs the lost, unregenerate folks to be reconciled to God. Now if He knows they cannot put their own faith in Christ such that He could credit that faith as righteousness, then that would be a deceptive offer. And since we all know God is not deceptive, that view is flat wrong. What if there is a range of receptivity in the populous at large, some in fact unable to understand and respond, some able to understand but unwilling to trust completely, from the heart, and others willing to trust but unwilling to turn from the treasures of this world, possessions or relationships. But the choice is theirs, they could and with some cultivating, some planting and some watering, they might come to their senses and seek the righteousness of God through faith in Christ.

So the fields are white with the harvest, but not every plant is ready to be harvested. So we need to go into the fields every day and beg, be reconciled to God, showing the love of Christ to the world.