Comparing the King James Bible With the NIV

[Enow]

Citing one example as to why one should refer to and rely on the King James Bible for the true meaning of the Word of God so as to have the meat of the word to expose the works of darkness in light of the real scriptures.

False teaching to expose: The Holy Spirit directly intercedes for the saints and aids them in prayer.

One source of this erroneous teaching; NIV:

Romans 8: 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. NIV

Understandably, we can see why believers would accept this teaching, but let us declare this false teaching:

The Holy Spirit directly intervenes when we do not know what to pray by uttering groans that words cannot express. This has been used to validate using the gift of tongues as a prayer language with groans which words cannot express as verse 26 implies.

Now to discern this teaching and the scriptures being used from the NIV.

Proof of the meaning of God's words lost in translations is found in verse 27. How can the "he" who searches our hearts AND knows the mind of the Spirit, be "the Spirit" that intercedes for the saints AND "in according to the will of God"? The "he" cannot be "the Spirit" because the "he" is seperate from us in searching our hearts and seperate from the Spirit to know the mind of, so the "he" is another "Person" that intercedes for the saints AND in according to the will of God. It is bad grammar to say that the Spirit is the one interceding for us in verse 27.

When we turn to the King James Bible, by His grace, we shall read the true meaning of God's words which will expose the false teaching mentioned above as a work of darkness and see why Jesus is the "he" that intercedes for the saints AND "in according to the will of God".

Romans 8: 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. King James Bible

By His grace, I hope that as we read the correct translation above, we can see the comparison and why we should rely on the King James Bible for the true meaning of God's words.

The term "itself" in verse 26 of the KJV in regards to the Spirit is declaring that the Holy Spirit is the means by which this intercession is being made. The verse declares that the Holy Spirit maketh intercession with groanings which cannot be uttered; hence no sound. So the blessed reader will wonder how then can the Holy Spirit intercede? The reader sees in verse 27 that the "he" which searcheth the hearts also knoweth the mind of the Spirit for it is "he" that intercedes for the saints in according to the will of God.

Verse 27 maintained the correct translation by keeping the pronoun "he" as being seperate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of as well as seperate from us in knowing our hearts.

So to the identity of the "he" being Jesus Christ.

Who searches the hearts?

Hebrews 4: 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The word of God searches the hearts. Bellow proves Jesus is the Word of God.

John 1: 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.....14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

As Jesus is before the throne of grace, we can see why the job of intercession falls to Him in according to the will of God.

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Notice how it is specified "the man Christ Jesus" as in the risen Saviour?

To remove all doubts, it is confirmed in Romans 8:34 further on down from Romans 8:26-27 of the reference in question as to where Jesus is and what He is doing there also.

Romans 8: 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

It is the job of the Mediator to make intercessions for us as the Comforter is the means by which the Mediator does His work, thus the use of the term "itself" has been applied correctly as opposed to the term "Himself" in the NIV, implying a direct intercession being done by the Holy Spirit.

Now for all those wanting to believe that tongues is a gift given for prayer language, and thus would rather lean on the NIV over the King James Bible, do consider this truth.

Matthew 6: 5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

So even before you ask Him, the Father knows, so what need is there for tongues as a prayer language? None.

Is it not comforting to know that whenever any believer is in a panic, and doesn't know what to pray for, God already knows? :godisgood:

The NIV has 1 Timothy 2:5 along with Romans 8:34 of its correct meaning, but because of the errors in Romans 8:26-27, they gloss over the contrariness in the NIV because they want to believe that the tongues they have which does not come with interpretation is from the Lord, and that it is the Holy Spirit that is interrupting them in their normal prayers to pray in "tongues" to aid them.

In any event, Matthew 6:5-8 has already proven that there is no need for tongues to serve as a prayer language as the King James has shown the correct translation as to how the Holy Spirit make these intercessions: indirectly, by just being in us as Our Comforter, while Jesus, Our ONLY Mediator, is the ONLY One making intercessions for us according to the will of God as Romans 8:26-27 of the KJV declares. raying:

This is one example why I rely on the King James Bible to expose the works of darkness in light by the true scriptures. :thumbs:

 

[Enow]

To expound further on reproving the false teaching mentioned above in regards to tongues serving as a prayer language:

All the manifestations of the Spirit are listed here:

1 Corinthians 12: 4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14For the body is not one member, but many.

These manifestations are to profit the body of Christ in the assembly.

Divers kinds of tongues are to be followed by the interpretations of those tongues.

This is why in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter, we see Paul exhorting the gift of prophesy over ALL SPIRITUAL GIFTS and THEN he began to compare the gift of tongues as a stand alone gift against the gift of prophesy throughout that entire chapter. It is verse 2 that is being misunderstood by readers as if Paul was endorsing tongues as a prayer language when he is just comparing the two singular gift as to why prophesy is the one to seek over tongues, because tongues is not a stand alone gift.

The same unknown tongue in verse 2 is the same unknown tongue that Paul is speaking about throughout the chapter as a gift that should come with interpretation for the body of believers. Paul testified himself that although he was edified by the gift of tongue by itself, he did not understand it and thus it was unfruitful... even to him. Paul exhorted tongue users then to pray that someone interprets and understand the use of tongues by the Lord as languages of other lips: not senseless babblings. Paul donwplayed tongues so much in that chpater to exhort the gift of prophesy that he had to make sure no one misunderstoof him that he was not forbidding the speaking of tongues, but that everything is to be done in decency and in order as he testified that God is not the author of confusion in the church.

So if the whole assembly spoke in tongues as a prayer langauge and Paul spoke against this in this wise:

1 Corinthians 14: 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Then what about individuals praying in tongues and someone comes on that person doing so? Would he not think the same?

Is it not strange that there is a tongue in the world before the Gospel came that does not come with any interpretation, but it is utter gibberish? This "supernatural tongue" can be gained by seeking after another spirit to receive and yet there is a false teaching of "another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues" being taught among the churches. It is the same rudiment and thus of the world, and not after Christ Jesus. Scriptures reproof below.

2 Corinthians 11: 1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

There is only one hope of our calling:

Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

There is only one drink of the Spirit:

1 Corinthians 12:13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

We are complete in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 2: 5For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

We are a new creature in Christ, bought with a price, filled with the promise of the Spirit by faith, and sealed as His and thus saved.

Matthew 9: 17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Colossians 1:19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

And yet due to false teaching that another spirit or more of the Holy Spirit is to be sought after to receive... they depart from the faith in Jesus Christ and are labouring in spiritual unbelief because we are filled when we came to Him to believe in the Son and thus His promise why we will not hunger nor thirst anymore.

John 6: 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world....9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Proof that heeding an invitation to seek after the Holy Spirit directly when He is already in you as promised by Jesus is climbing up another way as those that err are following a stranger's voice... a tongue that comes without interpretation.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door:....

Clear rebuke of using tongues as a prayer language:

2 Timothy 2: 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

to be continued... God be willing...

 

[Enow]

Yes, I know that the supernatural experience is real, but broadening the way by putting the Holy Spirit in the spotlight in the worship place is asking for trouble for the Holy Spirit in you is seeking to put they spotlight on Jesus Christ in the worship place to testify of the Son so as to glorify the Son: NOT himself. That is why we are told to not believe every spirit but test them for greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.

Look at how the world receives other spirits as opposed to how we will know the Holy Spirit.

John 14: 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The world receive other spirits as they see it, but we that have the Holy Spirit knows He is in us as promised by Jesus and received by faith.

Ephesians 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Hebrews 11: 1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen....6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Warning bells anyone?

Galatians 3:14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

If God will deliver those out of the occults through Jesus Christ, and we are to stand apart from the world, why would He give the gift of tongue to be used as a prayer language? Answer: He would not.

Did not Jesus gave a parable of condemning the one that buried the talent in the ground? Would God be a hypocrit for giving tongues that comes without interpretation, and yet tongues was to be given as a manifestation to profit the body withal.

So by departing from the faith and opening themselves up to suffer a thief to break through which many "houses" fall, they fail to see this prophesy coming true:

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

How is calling for the Holy Spirit to come when He is already in us not seen as hypocrisey as the word and deed is departing from the faith?

2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If the Holy Spirit is in us as promised, then let us be witnesses of the Good News now in Jesus Christ, :jesus: and not be stuck in the Day of Pentecost as if it is like the Hollywood movie "Groundhog Day". Let us fight the good fight by keeping the faith, shun the tongues that comes with no interpretation with Jesus' help, and narrow the way back to the straight gate as Jesus is the Bridegroom of Whom our eyes should be on and Whom the Holy Spirit in us is pointing us to so that we may rest in Jesus Christ and not be led away from our hope in Him by false spirits as well as false prophets.

At any rate, the importance of relying on the King James Bible leaning on Our Good Shepherd for guidance and discernment cannot be stressed enough in these latter days.

 

[DHK]

At any rate, the importance of relying on the King James Bible leaning on Our Good Shepherd for guidance and discernment cannot be stressed enough in these latter days.

You give little information about yourself--not your church, nor your denomination, not even your location. You should really correct that and identify yourself.

Suppose you were a missionary to Pakistan where they speak Punjabi or Urdu, or Somali, or China, or Iran, or Iraq. To reach the masses of these people you must learn their language. Or would you require them to learn the archaic Shakespearean English that they would be able to learn to read the KJV even though in many of these countries there is a high illiteracy rate in their own languages?
Is the KJV that important to you?
Most of these nations do have a Bible. But it is not based on the TR. It is translated from the Critical Text, and is more similar to the RSV than the KJV. Do they still have the Word of God in your view? Or are they without a Bible?

 

[TCGreek]

And it seems like from this thread that he needs to quit drinking too.

 

[DHK]

The KJVO crowd will not not refer to the Modern Versions as "perversions," "satanic," "devil's bibles," etc...nor call those that use them "Bible correctors," "Bible doubters," etc.

http://baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=2393

This is one of the posting rules in the Versions Forum.
Normally debates about the KJV and other versions are posted there, which is in the Baptist Only section. However, you don't identify who you are. I am afraid that I have no recourse but to close this thread.