Conform To The World

and if you're in a culture where they kill female babies because only the male babies are deemed of importance, how will a church be "in culture" ?

 

I agree with ya here SFIC, he did not mean become a sinner just to attrack them into the Church. But I do think Paul is saying he met them where they were so he would witness to them a Gospel that would penetrate. I don't want to argue the Rick Warren thing again but I know personally that if you want to witness to a gang banger I would not suggest walking up telling him about all his sins or telling him how he's heading to hell. You can however meet him where he's at and tell him about a friend that will stick closer than a brother. Tell him about a life where he doesn't have the fear the color of his shirt and where forgiveness is not a sign of being weak.

If and when you ever get him to accept the Gospel it will reveal all his sins and change him into what God wants him to be.

So in a way, yes, I do see Ricks point also. New folks in the Church usually don't understand the walk or the talk and will feel alianated and fall by the wayside. This was one reason we exteded our new members class to 6 weeks and made it mandatory before baptism. I know it's not biblical but if they are indwelt with the holy spirit then 6 weeks is not too long to wait for the human confirmation. If you are not indwelt, we won't see ya after a couple of weeks.

 

Agreed.

RW's statement also agrees with that.

 

You have done what many do with their own theology--distort scripture.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1 Corinthians 9:22 is not Romans 12:2. Their interpretation is not even the same. So why do you choose to make such a hermeneutic blunder? Sometime read the book Exegetical Fallacies.

I would assume by your response you do not believe what Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 9:20-23, "To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it."

Were you obedient to scripture when you wrote about an accusation against an elder? Did you ever call him on the phone for clarification or do you just assume your interpretation of what he wrote is right?
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I think this is a stretch to say that his ideas are bad. I think all the bible was trying to say is that you shouldn't let your belief system change with the changing times. All this preacher was trying to say was that you need to make an attempt to fit in or you aren't going to be successful. I think it's obvious that a northern liberal would have a very hard time trying to preach to southern republicans if he constantly brought up their northern beliefs and his liberalist political views. There are tons of examples along these likes, but yes, the preacher is exactly right, culture differences are very dramatic nowadays and if you don't make any attempts to fit in to the group that you are preaching/witnessing to, they aren't going to accept you and believe the things that you say. You have to connect with people, not be polarizing, which will do nothing but scare them away.

 

RW:
"And I think that means if you're in California, you should have a California culture church. If you're in Ohio, you should have an Ohio culture church. If you're in Mississippi, you should have a Mississippi culture church."


And yet his churches in these states are oddly uniform.
From coast to coast, many generically-named PF churches follow strangely similar courses. Can one really tell much of a difference between a Maple Brook Church in Ohio and a Meadow Pond Fellowship in California?

 

Those Mississippi sinners....

I’ve never been to Mississippi;
Are they really all that bad?

Rob

 

If the shoe fits wear it.

 

You are absolutely right. Clothing manufacturers certainly realize the differences and so do people in particular regions. They may not know why, but they recognize someone from another area. The TV stations know it too. Ever notice how few broadcasters are southern folks with a very pronounced accent that few understand. I remember the first time I saw a Shake & Bake advertisement years ago. The lady was from the south and kids went to school making fun of her accent. A few weeks later someone else was in the advertisement. WalMart found out the hard way in Germany. They did not observe the cultural practices that were common in Germany and died. They left Germany. People who plant churches know how important observing culture is.

In 2000, I went back to an area where earlier I had spent 10 years. I observed that most of the Southern Baptist Churches were dead and dying. Most of them were near closing their doors. I spoke with the local DOM. He was not sure what to do. I told him that what works in the south will not work there. They had not been able to get more then 10 people in a Bible study in four years. I had gotten 20 in six months. In that same area were several other good Bible believing churches that had been planted within the last five years. All of the pastors were from that kind of culture.

 

Meeting people where they are does not mean if they sin you sin to fit in. Thats just reading into a statement what one wants to see there.
You can not expect people to get cleaned up and becoem like you in order to hear the gospel, you have got to meet them where they are in life.

 

Exactly, meeting them where they are means going to the place where sin abounds not participatating in the sin. Jesus spent so much time around the sinners they acused him of their sins (winebibber). However we know he was without sin.

 

Amen Donna and LeBuick! :thumbs:

If we were to "avoid appearances of evil" as those who wrongly quote that verse, we would not be fulfilling the Great Commission. We are to "go"...not tell them to "come".

 

EWWWWW!!!!

Sinners have cooties....
Gotta stay away!
Might catch them...

Oh wait, my God is strong enough to protect me from sinner cooties...

 

Why not?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Some honest questions here:

1. What is your definition of success when it comes to evangelism?

2. By your definition of success, were Isaiah, Micah, Amos, and others at certain times, including Jesus, a success or a failure?

3. Do you think it is always wrong to be polarizing?

4. What is the basis for a lost person's salvation? The transforming power of the Holy Spirit convicting them of their sin and bringing them to repentance (grace) or the ability of some Christian to convince them that Jesus is the way to go by using the wisdom of the world?

5. If I were to go witness to a lost friend today and they politely rejected Christ, would I be considered a failure in your eyes?

Joseph Botwinick

 

We're not going to reach young people. All we can do is Preach the Word and it is God whom will reach the lost. The Church is not Wal-Mart or a political party. It is the Church that God has built.

Joseph Botwinick