Conscience and Free Will

Hello inpeace.

Conscience is not contested but free will is.

john.

 

Conscience is not contested but free will is.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]Further definition required Johnp.

 

Conscience is a part of hte intellectual part of man. Free will is part of the volitional part of man. They are unconnected. People freely violate their consciences all the time. That is how they get "seared with a hot iron."

 

Hello Wes.

It was an opener. Conscience is like having something miserable looking over your shoulder saying, "Don't do this and don't do that." And spoiling all the fun. A bit like the missus!
The argument is who is in charge around here, is it me or my conscience? What right has my conscience got to determine my course of action? Who said it was wrong anyway but someone else has inflicted his morals onto the society I live in and they have tried to forced that onto me? I shall do as I please and not as I have been conditioned. It was after all the 60's and I wanted that. That turned me on man! Anarchy! That was my argument before I was a Christian.

You can overcome the conscience but you cannot overcome your free will!

john.

 

Conscience is a learned thing, in the same manner that free will is a learned thing. Conscience is determined by our earliest training and our belief in what we were trained. Look at the small child who does not innately know the difference between right and wrong, the child "explores" everything without the filter of right and wrong turned on. It is only with adult correction that the child learns a conscience.

Free will on the other hand, is the "self expression" of what is learned in the form of decisions and actions. Free will is constrained by conscience, and conscience is tempered by the actions and consequences of free will expressed.

Neither Conscience nor free will is set in concrete. Both are malleable, and in constant change throughout one's life! That is why we "birds of a feather" change flocks from time to time. We are always seeking our "comfort zone" in which our conscience is not piqued, and our free will not stifled. Christian FAITH is the only place I've ever found where I have comfort like that, and my faith not only molds my conscience, but guides my free will, in the manner that Paul describes for himself. That does not mean that my free will is not eager to bust out and "explore" that which is not good for me, but when I do, my conscience reminds me of what is right and wrong in doing so. ouch!

 

Hello Wes.

Yea that's what I believed when I wanted to do as I pleased!

Do you mean you must be taught to be free? That'll take some proving.

Now I thought ...since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness... had something to do with it. Romans 2:15.

I have a very different opinion of my children.

Then that's free will is it?

john.

 

What a buch of garbage!

In peace, if you want to bypass all this self proclaimed mumbo jumbo go read

The Freedom of the Will by Jonathan Edwards

He knows alittle bit more than us. I highly (as do MOST theologians) recommend it.

As for a child not knowing good and evil?
In sin I was concieved.
The heart is desperatly wicked and who can know it?
There seems a way right unto a man, and the ways thereof is DEATH.

ESV 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Man's concience, mind is co-mingled with the heart. A natural man HAS a free will, he will do what he desires, and his HEART, concience, will approve of it.

Romans 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

 

You put an awful lot of confidence in Edwards!
We men all put our trousers on just as edwards does. He is no more, no less a man just like you and I, but perhaps he has a little too much unproductive time on his hands than you and I. He knows nothing more than what is given to man! In God's eyes he does not see Edwards as standing taller than any other man of faith! Neither should you!

 

You must have a pretty high opinion of yourself wes.

 

Can you believe the pride of that guy?

Your just a man also Wes. And alot less read than Edwards. If we should not respect him don't be a hypocrite and expect us to pay any attention to what you say.

His intellect has shaped Christianity world wide. You've so far have only been able to shape your mind, and that I'm afraid is not saying much.

 

You must have a pretty high opinion of yourself wes. </font>[/QUOTE]To the contrary, Scriptures tell us that God is no respecter of man! In God's eyes, no man is greater than all others. Faith is the means of God's measurement of man.

I have no illusions about mankind no one is better than another, except in the mind of man!

 

Edwards is not here posting, by what means do you compare? Or are you merely being judgmental?

 

Hello Wes.

Yea that's what I believed when I wanted to do as I pleased!

Do you mean you must be taught to be free? That'll take some proving.

Now I thought ...since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness... had something to do with it. Romans 2:15.

I have a very different opinion of my children.

Then that's free will is it?

john.

 

Are you saying the law does not have to be learned? (Rom 2) In context, all those whom Paul is speaking of had to learn the law, that's why Moses had the law written and copied in order to preserve it throughout perpetuity!

Free will exists, and becomes constrained by knowledge and experience! Nevertheless, it exists and everyone has it!

 

Hello Wes.

I don't remember saying that but law learnt is Hell hotter.
...since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness... Romans 2:15.

RO 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law...
What makes them guilty is their consciences condemned them because they knew when they done wrong. No written law is required but where it is there sin abounds.

To increase sin.

Why then is it still called free will and not will under control because that is what you describe?

john.

 

The learning of law makes no difference in the temperature of Hell! Neither does the disobedience of the law! Hell is not regulated by man's behavior!

The Law neither increases nor decreases sin, it merely identifies it!

You have an incorrect definition of "free will"!

 

Hey Pot... you got a call waiting for you.. it the kettle!

Wes, what is the WILL? ... NOT free or free... just plain ol WILL... what is it?

 

Hey Pot... you got a call waiting for you.. it the kettle!

Wes, what is the WILL? ... NOT free or free... just plain ol WILL... what is it? </font>[/QUOTE]Since I've been accused of NOT UNDERSTANDING WORDS, I'll let Merriam Webster explain it to you!

 

Nice cop out.

The will biblically is the heart. The from which DETERMINES the will. The desire from the heart determines what the will chooses. You will ALWAYS CHOOSE what you desire. You are what your heart is Wes. And the DESIRE of the HEART (the will) is continually WICKED and is at ENMITY with God and CAN NOT PLEASE God.

So yes, you have a free will. And if God let man by himself totally, man would continually, freely choose evil and NEVER choose God for man can not please God. Repentance is pleasing to Him isn't it? But yet scripture plainly states that man CAN NOT Please God. Thus WILL never choose Him.