Conscience?

I'm a neophite dabbling in this controversey.

"Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God."

Man has free will only in the sense that he is not under any outside compulsion which interferes with his freedom of choice or his just accountability. Man is born in sin, accordingly he has the freedom of a slave to sin.

Just like our body the conscience is not perfect, it can be bent and deceived (1 Ti. 4:2; Titus 1:15). It seems that the conscience can be educated and molded for good or evil (1 Peter 3:16).

Paul states clearly that the conscience is able to provide enough guidance to be able to condemn (not to save) a man that hasn’t received the law (Romans 1:14-16).

Rob

 

You have a false idea of what total depravity is. Many define total depravity as humankind's total inability to do anything good. That's not what TD is. Total depravity is the inability of humankind to do anything perfectly in accordance with God's plan. For without having a relationship with God via His Son Jesus Christ, you cannot know the will of God.

 

It doesn't. Deacon is talking about free will. I'm talking about the definition of td.

 

I agree with you. Why do you think I don't. A person bound by total depravity is capable of discerning right from wrong. However, a person bound by total depravity is incapable of discerning what is God's perfect plan. And one cannot adopt God's plan for one's life if one has not broken the chains of sinful nature and total depravity.

 

Your friend was referring to the inability of man to save himself. I don't think that's an issue we are in disagreement with.

 

Hello webdog.

Total Depravity:
Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.
The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."
Calvinism also maintains that because of our s fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).


(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Romans 2:13-14.
If a pagan feeds a man that is hungry then he fulfils the law to love his brother but he breaks it at the same time because his actions are always selfcentred. He will have a guilty conscience and a forboding if he doesn't. The conscience's function will only condemn as you have not done as you should. There is no merit in doing good as there is no merit in not robbing a bank. There is no reward for doing as you should but your conscience will be clear.

Seeking a "conscience void of offence" is not always a good thing as a conscience void of offence can be a sheared conscience. As for me I have a conscience void of offence.

john.

 

The view you express needs to be tempered with the fact that God "supernaturally" placed "emnity between the see of the woman and the seed of the serpent". (See Genesis 3)

That supernatural discord allows room for God to "Convict the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16 resulting in the "conscience" you mentioned in the above OP.

However the TD doctrine of Romans 3 is in the sense of ISOLATING all of God's work from mankind and just looking at what is IN the sinful nature itself.

Imagine if you will - a world of sinful fallen humans where The Trinity is not working on their behalf. That seems to be the scope of Romans 3 when it speaks of the sinful nature of man.

But GIVEN that supernatural work done "for ALL" for "The World" by God who sends Christ "into the world and coming into the world enlightens EVERY one of mankind" John 1 -- then you have the REAL net effect that you see described in texts you have quoted.

And in that NET effect realm - you can have HARDENING taking place and searing of the conscience (that is to say - a downward path is pursued)

In Christ,

Bob

 

Is Bob talking about reptiles webdog?

john.

 

It is interesting how Webdog's view of conscience is seen in Romans 2 in the case of Gentiles who have no access to God's Word - the scriptures -- and yet the New Covenant promise of the Law of God written on the heart is SEEN IN THEM!!

 

hearts of stone you care to neglect I see

john.

 

Not me. I am quick to point out that the Romans 3 description (complete with hearts of stone) is being addressed by the God who DRAWS ALL.

Even Calvinists admit that the John 12 DRAWING OF GOD enables those hearts to act.

 

not you?

john.

 

The problem of a person "saving himself" doesn't appear to occur to most people. It is a straw man.