Continuationism and Cessationism: An Interview with Dr. Wayne Grudem

[Pastor Larry]

Many would lean on 1 Cor 13. Others would lean on the "purposes" argument. Others would rightly show that what is practiced in the modern charismatic movement is not what the Bible describes.

I am of the opinion that the sign gifts have ceased. But if you are going to practice tongues, practice it like the Bible teaches.

1. Tongues are a known language. No nonsensical jibber jabber.
2. Have an interpreter so that the body may be edified.
3. Do it decently and in order. One at a time.
4. Do not use tongues as an indication of superior spirituality or the baptism of the Spirit.

If we follow those four principles, there will be very little disgreement. Tongues, and miracles, and healings, would not exist.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

1 Cor 13 is not clear on the issue. The purposes arguement is not clear.

I agree 100% that what we see today in many charismatic circles is complete garbage.

But I am not ready to say it has all ceased because of that.

Tongues, and miracles, and healings, would not exist.

So there are no longer any miracles or healings that take place?

I think that to say it has all ceased with it being so unclear is limiting God.

 

[Pastor Larry]

So there are no longer any miracles or healings that take place?

Not in the apostolic sense of laying on hands that brings about healing.

I think 1 Cor 13 and the purposes argument are very clear.

But either way, I don't think it is limiting God. I don't think that follows at all. God can do whatever he wants to do. The question is, What has God said he would do?

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Explain to me how 1 Cor 13 is clear on the issue?

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
Explain to me how 1 Cor 13 is clear on the issue?

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
1 Cor 13 is not clear on the issue. The purposes arguement is not clear.

I agree 100% that what we see today in many charismatic circles is complete garbage.

But I am not ready to say it has all ceased because of that.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Tongues, and miracles, and healings, would not exist.

So there are no longer any miracles or healings that take place?

I think that to say it has all ceased with it being so unclear is limiting God. </font>[/QUOTE]This is an interesting point. I have heard of at least TWO stories where missionaries who only knew English were preaching and were understood by non-English speaking tribesmen.

I personally think these could be actual "speaking in tongues" miracles. They certainly match the Biblical description better than the hypno-babble heard in today's charismatic movements.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Phillip, I agree with you and that is another reason why I am not a cessationist. My missions professor in seminary shared with us a testimony from his days in the mission field that convinced me.

He was new to the field and just getting started in his language studies and he had an opportunity to preach at an event with an interpreter. Something happened and the interpreter was not able to come. The man got up and preached to the people a gospel message and was able to speak fluently in their language during the message. When he got done, he did not know any more of the language than when he started. I believe this to be a modern example of speaking in tongues.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

That would be a perfect example.On healing the Bible tells us to get 2 or 3 of the elders of the church and be annointed with oil and prayed over. I think that is how God heals today as well as by the prayers of all of the saints(those who are saved).I know God answers prayer.I have prayed for many with cancer and the cancer has left them.This is not bragging on me since I just did the begging God did the healing.I know that when I pray coincidences happen and when I don't pray coincidences don't happen.God provides for healings and miracles when they are appropriate and bring glory to Him.I do have a hard time with some of the TV stuff that we see.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
Phillip, I agree with you and that is another reason why I am not a cessationist. My missions professor in seminary shared with us a testimony from his days in the mission field that convinced me.

He was new to the field and just getting started in his language studies and he had an opportunity to preach at an event with an interpreter. Something happened and the interpreter was not able to come. The man got up and preached to the people a gospel message and was able to speak fluently in their language during the message. When he got done, he did not know any more of the language than when he started. I believe this to be a modern example of speaking in tongues.

I think a cessationist could believe this happened and still be a cessationist, because what you describe above is not the gift of tongues, imo, unless your prof continued to have the gift of tongues and was able to do this as part of presenting the gospel on a regular basis.

If the above was an isolated incident, it was purely a miracle from the Lord, not the gift of tongues. A cessationist believes that the gift of tongues has ceased, not that God would not do something like the above through people here and there. Same with healing - God still heals of course, and he might do it through someone's prayer. But the gift of healing which is given to certain people is something else.

 

[TaterTot]

I am a non cessationist, but my understanding of tongues isnt what many people hold to be true.
The word for tongues in the greek is for languages, I think that has been well established in this debate. I also know a former missionary to Ethiopia who had similar experiences with "tongues" (like the missions professor above)

Glossalia isnt unique to Christianity. It was practiced in pagan societies as well.
One missionary friend even related an account to me of a man possessed by what she believed to be a demon turned and spoke to her in English. This man had never studied a word of English in his life. And, he called her by name, first and last. That'll certainly give ya the willies.

I hold that the gift of tongues (as in Acts 2) is in connection with missionary advance, and has everything to do with God enabling one to speak or hear something in a language they havent studied.