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"Converted"

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Rev. G, Oct 11, 2002.

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  1. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    Are you a Calvist that used to be an Arminian? Are you an Arminian that used to be a Calvinist?
    Have you "always" been an Arminian?
    Have you "always" been a Calvinist?
     
    #1 Rev. G, Oct 11, 2002
  2. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    What about those of us who are Calminians or Arvinists?
     
    #2 Johnv, Oct 11, 2002
  3. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    You just don't fit! [​IMG] I knew there was going to be somebody like you who asked that question. I suppose I should have added something like...."Neither/Can see from both sides." How's that? What do you think?
     
    #3 Rev. G, Oct 11, 2002
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I voted that I changed from being an Arminian since that was the option available but I actually changed from being a Pelagian.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite
     
    #4 KenH, Oct 11, 2002
  5. Peculiar person

    Peculiar person New Member

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    Ok, Ken, you've done it to me again. What the heck is a "Pelagian?" What did we decide on the other board, so I know how to vote? Am I closer to Calvinism or Arminianism?

    PP
     
    #5 Peculiar person, Oct 12, 2002
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    PP,

    A Pelagian believes that a baby is born innocent, that he stands in the same position as Adam, with no sin nature. Therefore, it is possible, according to a Pelagian, for a person to live a sinless life and enter heaven based on his own perfection.

    On the other board we never got much into the Calvinism/Arminianism discussion. I prefer the terms Calvinism/Non-Calvinism, since some people who are basically Arminians don't like to be called Arminians.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite
     
    #6 KenH, Oct 12, 2002
  7. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    Ken,

    Since Pelagianism is nearly identical to modern Arminianism I thought the poll was okay. [​IMG]
     
    #7 Rev. G, Oct 13, 2002
  8. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Rev. G, why do you think only those two positions are possible?
     
    #8 Helen, Oct 13, 2002
  9. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    #9 rlvaughn, Oct 13, 2002
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    There are truly only two ways that salvation could occur - either by free grace or by free will - regardless of what religion one is referring to.

    Calvinism teaches that salvation is by God's sovereign, free grace. All other systems, which Arminianism can can stand as a symbol for, teach salvation by man's works in free will. This will be vehemently denied by those who believe in free will but the statement stands true nonetheless.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite [​IMG]
     
    #10 KenH, Oct 13, 2002
  11. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    There are truly only two ways that salvation could occur - either by free grace or by free will - regardless of what religion one is referring to.

    Calvinism teaches that salvation is by God's sovereign, free grace. All other systems, which Arminianism can can stand as a symbol for, teach salvation by man's works in free will. This will be vehemently denied by those who believe in free will but the statement stands true nonetheless.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]So why is it that Pastor Larry can call "foul! That's not what we believe" to someone like Chappie, but Arminians cannot deny what you say.

    Listen carefully, Ken. Arminians (and by this I mean Arminius himself) points out very clearly that salvation is not gained by works. The Arminians on this board do not believe one can work his way to salvation.

    Why in the world do you keep saying it over and over when you've been proven that we don't believe it?
     
    #11 ScottEmerson, Oct 13, 2002
  12. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Let me ask you a question, Ken.

    I will have a house built for you. I will buy the land, design the home myself, hire the contractors and sub-contractors, oversee the building personally, landscape it, put in an automatic sprinkler system, furnish it with your favorite colors and styles and then give it to you.

    You, however, have the choice to accept it or reject it.

    That is your free choice.

    Have you done anything to earn or otherwise provide yourself with that house?

    It was all me. I did it. You did nothing. But you can accept it if you like.

    Salvation is exactly the same way. We have the free choice to accept or reject what Christ has done for us in accepting or rejecting Him.

    That does not mean we have done even the tiniest little thing regarding our own salvation. It is all by His grace through His power because of His love for us -- all of us.
     
    #12 Helen, Oct 13, 2002
  13. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    Helen:

    I know I'm not Ken, but he might say that there is no problem with the house. The problem is with the "prospective owner." He doesn't want the house, and will continue to reject the house until the home builder changes his disposition.
     
    #13 Rev. G, Oct 13, 2002
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Amen, Rev. G. You can continue the house building analogy - you hit the nail squarely on the head. [​IMG] If the diagnosis is wrong, then the wrong remedy will be espoused.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite

    [ October 14, 2002, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
    #14 KenH, Oct 14, 2002
  15. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Maybe this will help a little.

    If you build me a house, this is a grand idea and worthy of all acceptation. However, the problem is I (being unregenerate) am at enimity against the housebuilder. It is this enimity that tells me one of the following:

    1) I can accept the house as is; (Is. 4.1)
    2) If I accept the house then the "house builder" must conform to my predisposition. In accepting the house, I must move in; (Rom. 4.4)
    3) I can and will decline the house, because I do not see my need of the house; (John 5.40)

    God Bless.

    Brother Dallas

    [ October 16, 2002, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Frogman ]
     
    #15 Frogman, Oct 16, 2002
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Since God builds the house... God puts you in the house by his Sovereign Irresistible Grace... That is the only way you are accepted in the beloved... It's ALL OF GOD or none of GOD!... I accepted God only after he accepted me!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
    #16 tyndale1946, Oct 16, 2002
  17. ForumChaplain

    ForumChaplain Guest

    The flesh is enmity against God. Is that all you are......

    The rest of your argument is nothing more than a diversion.

    Nobody ever claimed that God has to submit to our disposition. We walk in under his terms or we don't walk in at all. Why are you throwing smoke bombs...

    [ October 16, 2002, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]
     
    #17 ForumChaplain, Oct 16, 2002
  18. ForumChaplain

    ForumChaplain Guest

    To paraphrase your comments, could it not also be truthfully said that you came in after he removed all your options.{irresistible grace} In which case you accepted nothing. You said that God did everything. You were dangled on a string like a puppet....

    You did nothing of your own volition, so when you say, Lord I love you, You make God a ventrolloquist (sp) and a puppeteer. And then you call it love....

    [ October 16, 2002, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]
     
    #18 ForumChaplain, Oct 16, 2002
  19. Scott777ab

    Scott777ab Guest

    Not a very fair selection of choices on your poll
    you forgot to add

    NONE: I belong to christ.
     
    #19 Scott777ab, Oct 17, 2002
  20. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    We walk in under his terms or we don't walk in at all

    I agree, Brother. His terms are according to His Sovereign Will, by His Sovereign Grace. If not by His terms, then we, whether openly claim it or not, expect Him to submit to ourselves.

    The only smoke screen is thrown up when we begin to entertain that we can "walk" into God's house though we are dead in trespasses and sins.

    Read again John 5.40: This is what Jesus said.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas

    [ October 18, 2002, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Frogman ]
     
    #20 Frogman, Oct 18, 2002
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