Cooperative Baptist Fellowship

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by webmaster:
ATLANTA (BP)--The tenth anniversary General Assembly of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship plunged into controversy as the June 28-30 meeting turned into a protracted battle over homosexuality.

Read entire article: http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=11235<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Its much worse than that. They also participated in Godess worship ... to be expected by those who deny the Scriptures ...

 

Chris, Are you sure they deny the scriptures? I would tend to think they deny your definition of inerrancy.
Russell

 

There has definitely been evidence to show that they considered condoning or not condemning homosexuality from that link and on their own homepage. This is sad in and of itself. The only redeeming part of this story is that it was held back from passing. However, Chris, what is your evidence of Goddess worship. I think that is more rumor started by rabid SBC fundamentalists than it is the truth. I concede that they had the wrong spirit in the homosexuality issue, but if we are going to make random statements about goddes worship, then be prepared to showed the evidence or you will be percieved as a troublemaking gossip.

Joseph

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:

Its much worse than that. They also participated in Godess worship ... to be expected by those who deny the Scriptures ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is the link: http://www.bpnews.net/printerfriendly.asp?ID=11230

 

Chris,

Please accept my apologies for my earlier statement. I had heard the rumor before, but never saw any news reports or anything on their website to back that up. Now that I have, I am taking the reports a little more seriously and starting to investigate the allegations. I have begun by e-mailing the staff at the CBF and asking if that is true or if it is a misconception. When (or IF) I recieve a response, I will report back. If it is true, then I will no longer be able to allign myself with the CBF.

Joseph

 

I have finally heard a response straight from the horse's mouth. I recently e-mailed Daniel Vestal concerning this matter and promised to report back as soon as I heard back. Well, here is the entire communication:

Joseph, thanks for the letter. Let me assure you that CBF is committed to the triune God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is written in our mission statement. It is evident in our gatherings when we worship. I was in every service in Atlanta and not once was there a reference to "goddess" worship.

I do know that Baptist Press reported on the Baptist Women in Ministry meeting, which was auxiliary to CBF. There are over 50 auxiliary meetings at our General Assembly. I was not at the BWIM meeting, but was told that one speaker referenced God as being like a father and mother (Isaiah 66:13). The Baptist Press reporter then turned the remarks into something that was not at all what was said. I have talked to a number of women present and they were very upset by the false reporting of their meeting.

I hope this helps clarify. Again, let me assure you that CBF is healthy and viable in its witness to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Daniel Vestal

&gt;&gt;&gt; "Joseph Botwinick" &lt;jgbotwinick@msn.com&gt; 07/05/01 04:22PM &gt;&gt;&gt;
Hello,

My name is Joseph Botwinick and I consider myself to be a moderate Baptist. I have always seen myself as having leanings toward the CBF view of things, but recently, have heard some disturbing reports concerning the organization. It has been reported that at the most recent convention in Atlanta, that your group encouraged goddess worship and and prayed prayers to "Mother God". Would you please clarify if this is true or if it is a misunderstanding? If it is a misunderstanding, would you please make very clear where the CBF stands on this issue? I want to stand in defence of the truth, but if this is where the CBF is going, I can't stand behind that. I do not feel very comfortable in the ultra extreme conservativism of the SBC. But I also do not feel comfortable at the ultra extreme liberal end of the convention. I tend to think that there are probably many people who feel like I do and are looking, but feel disenfranchised by both extremes.

Sincerely,

Joseph Botwinick

This seems to shed a little more light on the subject. Is there any other evidence to corroborate what was reported by Baptist Press. Perhaps someone knows who the speaker might be so that we might personally contact her and ask for her side of the story. I would like to investigate this further when I have time.

Joseph

 

Here is part of the original article if it helps:
C U R R E N T F E A T U R E S T O R Y
&gt; by the Editors of ReligionToday
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; July 2, 2001
&gt;
&gt; Women Celebrate 'Mother God' as Moderate Baptists Gather in
&gt; Atlanta
&gt;
&gt; Wishing the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (CBF) a "happy
&gt; 10th birthday," CBF coordinator Daniel Vestal welcomed
&gt; participants to the organization's annual assembly, June
&gt; 28-30, at Atlanta's Georgia World Congress Center.
&gt;
&gt; Vestal leads the denomination-like organization that began
&gt; in Atlanta a decade ago for Baptists disgruntled with the
&gt; conservative direction of the Southern Baptist Convention.
&gt;
&gt; As the Dallas Morning News noted: "Making sense of the
&gt; alphabet soup of modern Baptist institutional life ... is a
&gt; challenge. They include: the Southern Baptist Convention,
&gt; Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, Baptist General Convention
&gt; of Texas, Southern Baptists of Texas Convention, Baptists
&gt; Committed, various Mainstream Baptist associations and
&gt; several Baptist Laymen associations. Because they're all
&gt; Baptist, each is completely independent. But many are
&gt; entangled to some degree."
&gt;
&gt; According to event coordinators, nearly 3,250 participants
&gt; had registered for this event where CBF leaders remain
&gt; critical about the conservative direction of the Southern
&gt; Baptist Convention and of its leaders. In 1991, 3,000 were
&gt; estimated at the first meeting.
&gt;
&gt; This year's meeting is likely to attract unprecedented
&gt; attention, reported the Dallas Morning News. Partly, it's
&gt; because of the featured speaker scheduled for the second
&gt; night: Jimmy Carter, the former president and the nation's
&gt; best-known former Southern Baptist. "But partly it's
&gt; because the once-obscure CBF has become more important to
&gt; the nation's millions of moderate Baptists," the paper
&gt; said.
&gt;
&gt; Baptist Press reports that "with songs and prayers to
&gt; Mother God, an auxiliary organization of the Cooperative
&gt; Baptist Fellowship also opened its annual meeting with a
&gt; clear message -- the current controversy is about more than
&gt; women pastors."
&gt;
&gt; The annual Baptist Women in Ministry (BWIM) breakfast
&gt; reflected feminist God language, culminating in a litany
&gt; read by BWIM members about their discomfort at calling God
&gt; "Father," "Lord," and "King." During a litany,
&gt; participants chanted in unison that they "can say" the
&gt; words Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit, "no problem." God the
&gt; Father, however, is an altogether different story.
&gt;
&gt; BWIM treasurer Sally Burgess told the crowd she believed
&gt; more SBC women would be ordained to the pastorate "because
&gt; I believe God is good, and She knows what She's doing."
&gt; Speakers also referred to the Trinity as "Creator,
&gt; Redeemer, Sustainer," language promoted by various feminist
&gt; theologians in mainline Protestant denominations to replace
&gt; the "patriarchal" language of "Father, Son, and Holy
&gt; Spirit."
&gt;

 

First, let me clarify that I do not hold to this organization, I just happen to get their mailings because I guess they send mailing to all females--at least all females in ministry.

The Baptist Women in Ministry group is one that I find straying from what the Bible says, and from what they print, I would hold that the BP article is true that they follow a woman god, though they may not want to agree if directly stated that way.

They get a good bit of support from CBF, though I don't know that I think that (CBF) they hold to Mother God.

[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: SaggyWoman ]

 

Saggy,

Would you please quote some from one of these pamphlets and present more evidence to validate what Chris is alledging, and then cite the source so I can investigate further?

Thank You,
Joseph

 

It's easy to see where the CBF is headed. So, it seems to me that the fine points and technicalities of what they say and do today are not so important. If it's not quite as bad as it sounds today, just wait a year of so. When you see the clouds you know it's going to rain.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud JBotwinick for insisting on facts to avoid gossip or bad information, a good example to follow...thanks for the clarifications and info directly from the source. My point is just that I don't think time spent on their (CBF) sinking ship is very wise.

 

Joseph,

I usually read the BWim newsletter, get angry then flick it in the trash.

I may have gotten one since I have been gone two weeks. I will try to remember to save it the next time I get one, and bring the quotes here.

 

Joseph, Baptist Women in Ministry have a web site. www.baptistnet.com\bwim
Check it out
Russell

 

Joseph, if you want more on the CBF deal in Atlanta, all you need to do is go to the Atlanta newspapers around the time they were their and right after. Also other christian papers reported on them and their meeting.

 

I was at the BWIM breakfast and worship service, and now I cannot remember if God was specifically prayed to as Mother. Truth be told, I attended one of the CBF partner seminaries (McAfee) and after several years of praying to God as both Mother and Father there; I don't even notice it anymore when others do it.

Are there really that many baptists out there who are so completely out of touch with the larger Christian community that they have never heard someone pray to God as Mother?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CJoshuaV:


Are there really that many baptists out there who are so completely out of touch with the larger Christian community that they have never heard someone pray to God as Mother?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably not. Nor are they so out of touch with society that they have never heard of child abuse, or murder, or corruption, or disease and starvation.

So what?

 

I'm sorry, but do you really think that the historically established and theologically valid practice of praying to a God who is both genders is analogous to the heinous practices you mention?

Joshua

 

I can't answer that question because you have loaded it in such a way that either "yes" or "no" would be a wrong answer.

 

Feel free to restate the answer in a way you find accurate. Praying to God as "Mother" is a legitimate and time-honored Christian practice, and one that was observed frequently in our baptist seminary.

Joshua

 

OK, first of all something can be "legitimate" and "time honored" from a certain person's or group's perspective, but that does not make it biblical and in accordance with God's Word. Such is the case here.

My point in response to your post was simply that you cannot discredit Biblical Christianity by inferring that folks who believe the Bible are either a) "out of touch" or b) willfully ignorant, when the fact is that they simply hold to a different source of authority than you do.