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Cost of Education
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
- Start date
I lived in Germany for four years (I was in service, but living on the economy). While I agree that these countries do not pay individually for their own education as we do here, it is not honest to say either that their citizens have the opportunity to "freely" attend college, or that the cost is not paid by its citizens.
My comment is that the post is noting but thinly veiled lies and propaganda (those who want free college will say "free like those nations" yet they do not mean "free like it is in those nations." When I lived in Germany we'd always say that it was a good place unless you were healthy and dumb (although "dumb" wasn't really fair, I know several people who have children that did not excel "middle school" who moved to the US so that their children could go to college - one young lady had been enrolled in "special education" for a hearing disorder in fourth grade which disqualified her for college [not the disorder, but having been enrolled in the program]).
But it would be interesting to explore the restrictions placed on secondary education in those countries alongside our nation's sense that college should be a right and see which one produces better results (I think the other nations would prevail). It would also be interesting to explore the costs associated with college that are passed to people who will never qualify for those benefits in those nations. What you end up with rather quickly is the poor uneducated struggling to pay the tuition for those who do merit higher education.
But no, that "free" education is not freely available and it comes at a steep cost to many who cannot take advantage of its benefit.
My comment is that the post is noting but thinly veiled lies and propaganda (those who want free college will say "free like those nations" yet they do not mean "free like it is in those nations." When I lived in Germany we'd always say that it was a good place unless you were healthy and dumb (although "dumb" wasn't really fair, I know several people who have children that did not excel "middle school" who moved to the US so that their children could go to college - one young lady had been enrolled in "special education" for a hearing disorder in fourth grade which disqualified her for college [not the disorder, but having been enrolled in the program]).
But it would be interesting to explore the restrictions placed on secondary education in those countries alongside our nation's sense that college should be a right and see which one produces better results (I think the other nations would prevail). It would also be interesting to explore the costs associated with college that are passed to people who will never qualify for those benefits in those nations. What you end up with rather quickly is the poor uneducated struggling to pay the tuition for those who do merit higher education.
But no, that "free" education is not freely available and it comes at a steep cost to many who cannot take advantage of its benefit.
How in the world could education be free? Are the teachers going to teach for free? Are the contractors going to build the buildings for free? Are the material suppliers going to give them away?
Why is it liberals believe there is an endeless supply of money to just make everything "free"?
Spoiler alert- there is no more money for any new poorly run government programs. It is all gone. Our country is broke and in debt up to our noses. "Free" education is not possible.
Spoiler alert- there is no more money for any new poorly run government programs. It is all gone. Our country is broke and in debt up to our noses. "Free" education is not possible.
Good post Rob. And that's the thing. With the info in the OP, "Occupy Democrats" have put out and circulated a shallow lie. But they know that the more people see it the more they will gain support. The Democrat party is not stupid, they just trust everyone else is. Too many people want someone to say what they want to hear, and they will hear only what meets their desire.
Not too long ago the argument was that everyone was entitled to a college education. Now it is do like those other nations and make it a benefit to the upper education tier that applies themselves and qualifies, and have the lower class help in paying the bill. If it is between those two choices - college for all, or US citizens absorbing the cost for only those highly qualified, then I'd vote the latter. But Democrats are banking on people connecting those two ideas together. It is dishonest.
Not too long ago the argument was that everyone was entitled to a college education. Now it is do like those other nations and make it a benefit to the upper education tier that applies themselves and qualifies, and have the lower class help in paying the bill. If it is between those two choices - college for all, or US citizens absorbing the cost for only those highly qualified, then I'd vote the latter. But Democrats are banking on people connecting those two ideas together. It is dishonest.
Liberals say people are entitled to whatever it is they are pushing for. They would make a human right out of a ham sandwich.
Uh no, I do not want to help others via the government. I do not want it involved. It is corrupt, lazy, and more expensive than necessary. I have told you this over and over again. This country was founded on smaller government. There was a good reason for that.
Bernie Sanders likes to make the comment that "50 years ago we decided to make sure everyone got a free high school education. Now we need to make sure everyone has access to a free college education."
The problem with this idea is that once you make something a standard, like a high school education, it becomes the least common denominator. Yes, 50 years ago a high school education was considered necessary to employment in a meaningful job. But a college education set you apart from the crowd, opening up better career opportunities. If we make a college education commonplace, if everyone has one, then what will future young people need to do to make themselves stand out from the crowd? Get a master's degree? PhD?
The problem with this idea is that once you make something a standard, like a high school education, it becomes the least common denominator. Yes, 50 years ago a high school education was considered necessary to employment in a meaningful job. But a college education set you apart from the crowd, opening up better career opportunities. If we make a college education commonplace, if everyone has one, then what will future young people need to do to make themselves stand out from the crowd? Get a master's degree? PhD?
The problem with your plan is that many you would deny the opportunity for college may actually be better suited than the upper educated you would have go for "free." Many do not take studies seriously though out primary school as this is a time of development (both physical and mental). That aside, are you suggesting denying college to those "less qualified" all together or would you allow them to attend if they could pay themselves? That "higher tier" that does attend for "free," if they want to choose a different field of study than their aptitude suggests would this be allowed provided they do not do so with government funds?
I do see some benefits in terms of the education system of those countries you mention (I have thought for some time that our colleges could be a bit more selective), but I just do not think that many Americans would support what the Democrats are suggesting here once they realize that the only way it applies to them is int he form of paying more money for others to go to college.
Hmm, I do not believe you would find that true in German, France or the Scandinavian Countries.
To stand our from the crowd you need a masters or Ph.D. even as we discuss.
OK, so a free college education has devalued the significance of attaining it. That's my whole point.
Are advanced college degrees free in these countries? If not, why not?
Simply a thinly veiled excuse for trying not to be stingy and yet clam you are interested in helping people. Just won't hold water Rev. Now if you church had a scholarship fund to help your young people with a budged second only to the staff salary I might reconsider my comment and thought on this.
Where is a college scholarship ministry found in the Bible? Sheesh.
If we made a way so that everyone could attend college then yes, it would be devalued. But what is truly suggested by the reality of the illustrations of the OP is a narrowing of the people who can actually attend college - not by financial means but by aptitude. Fewer people may attend college, but the graduation rate will increase. And yes, the citizens of those nations (a great many who are not afforded the opportunity to attend college) will provide the education of that upper tier.
I'll tell you what. No matter what I do I want you to not reconsider your comment. Your comment, your opinion, your view on anything matters about as much to me as does what Hitler thinks about what I eat for breakfast.
By the way, should I start a thread with a meme on why spelling and punctuation matters?
Going to college is not a right nor a moral imperative. No one is owed a college education. This is not a moral issue. There is no point in stealing from the tax payers, who cannot afford it, to give to someone who can pay for it themselves.
This simply re-enforces that you do not want to help others. Also it shows you have little regard for the future of our country and the future of your children and grandchildren. It also shows you do not care if other countries, some friendly and some not, surpass us educationally.
Are you a boomer? They are the most self-centered generation in our history.
I hope you will be consistent with you beliefs and not allow your children to have any government sponsored scholarships or help as in your belief system they do not deserve help from others.
On that point I believe your children and grandchildren do deserve help in their education as it:
1. Would make their lives better
2. Would help our country
3. Would probably make them more able to help you in your old age
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