Could the "National I.D." be (or become later) the Mark of the Beast?

[tamborine lady]

:type:

I was wondering what others thought about this! There are lots of opinions both ways, so what do you think?

If this has already been didcussed, please point me to the thread!

By May of 2008 we will will all need to get a new drivers license and all the info will be available to Homeland Security.

Waiting & Watching,

Tamborine Lady

 

[El_Guero]

OK

I think you have been given some definite misinformation.

The federal government already has access to all of your personal information that is on your driver's license. A new ID card will not change their access to data.

However on the other hand, a national ID could lead to the mark of the beast being more easily accepted.

 

[Claudia_T]

Could the "National I.D." be (or become later) the Mark of the Beast?


Answer: No

The Mark of the Beast has to do with those who DO NOT keep the commandments of God... all you have to do is look at the characteristics of God's people who DO NOT have the Mark of the Beast to figure out the characteristics of those who DO. see below:


Revelation 14:
6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.



Note that the Mark of the Beast is in the forehead or hand... and the commandments were to be in the forehead and hand. You will have either Satan's mark or God's mark.

Deuteronomy 6:
1: Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you
8: And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

 

[tamborine lady]

:type:

I'm sorry, it's been a long time since I've been here so I forgot about the SDA's.

We know full well your theology. I don't say that to be rude, but I would like to make this discussion on the RFID chip and what a lot of the rest of us believe. So am I correct in asuming that you would have no problem with getting your National I.D. card Claudia?

Please check out these sites El_Guerro and then let me know what you think.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50057

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38038

The National I.D. card could mean that you couldn't work or buy groceries, (someday) not now of course.

It does mean now that if you don't get your National I.D. (drivers license) you won't be allowed into federal buildings, airports, etc.

So how about comments from some others.

Waiting and watching,

Tam

 

[mnw]

you think you've got it bad. Within a decade some say the UK will be implanting chips into citizens!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=413345&in_page_id=1770

http://www.no2id.net/news/newsblog/?p=378

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/30/burnham_rfid_evasions/

The sooner the antichrist comes the better, because my Christ is coming for me first!

 

[Rufus_1611]

:type:

I was wondering what others thought about this! There are lots of opinions both ways, so what do you think?

If this has already been didcussed, please point me to the thread!

By May of 2008 we will will all need to get a new drivers license and all the info will be available to Homeland Security.

Waiting & Watching,

Tamborine Lady

First, free nations do not have national identification. The precedence for national papers was set by men like Stalin and Hitler (who also both had concerns for the "Homeland").

I believe, to various degrees, SSNs, ATMs, EFT, POS, National ID, Verichip, RFID, eieio all contain shadows or elements of the mark of the beast which will eventually culminate into one standard which will be taken in the hand or in the forehead.

 

[BobRyan]

It is sidetracking misdirection that suggests that instead of looking for what God views as the "sin" issue with the Mark of the Beast--- just look at the TECHNOLOGY that might be used to identify and track citizens.

God does not say in the Ten Commandment "thou shalt not know thy neigbbor's real name".

Yet this is exactly where a lot of the sensationalist populist teachings on the Mark of the Beast have gone.

By Contrast lets look at scripture -- Rev 13 AND REV 14 BOTH deal with the Mark - those who get it and those who do not.

Why take only a tiny snippet out of 13 and simply forget about the fact that two WHOLE CHAPTERS deal with the subject -- both 13 AND 14??

Better means of ID tracking provides for more efficient administration of punishment/civil-penalties-restrictions. But being "better able to administer" government regulations is not a moral sin. It is only when those laws command us to violate or deny Bible truth (as in forcing a policy that is in violation to one of the Ten Commandments) that it is sin -- and in that case it is sin EVEN if there is NO driver's license involved.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I believe, to various degrees, SSNs, ATMs, EFT, POS, National ID, Verichip, RFID, eieio all contain shadows or elements of the mark of the beast which will eventually culminate into one standard which will be taken in the hand or in the forehead.

They are all forms of ID -- and that includes Birth Certificates and Driver's Licenses not just SSNs.

But God has no 11th commandment saying "thou shalt not know thy Neigbhor's real name".

The "very very accurate" ID vs the "sorta-accurate ID" is not a moral issue with God. It is not sin. What is sin is imposing civil penalties against those who do not agree to violate the Law of God in some way.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[mnw]

It is seeing the signs of the times. I do not believe any specific signs are being fulfilled, but I believe we can see the stage being set.

Knowing that we are living in an age where Biblical prophecies can be fulfilled in such a way that no other generation could offer helps us see the times in which we live.

But, you are right, ID in and of itself is innocent, even productive and positive.

 

[tamborine lady]

:type:

For Rufus and Bob Ryan,

No offence fellows, but it's the kind of thinking that you are exibiting that will make the Mark of the beast possible, and you won't resist.

One because the rapture hasn't happened yet and the other because it HAS to be going to church on Sunday, and not Saturday. Bob, if that "National Sunday Law" is ever passed, I will offer you and apology.

MNW, I believe you are right on. the stage is being set for the RFID chip to be implanted under our skin, so that we can't lose our I.D.

Identity theft is rampant in our world today and that would be just the thing to fix it.

Waiting and watching,

Tam

 

[xdisciplex]

However on the other hand, a national ID could lead to the mark of the beast being more easily accepted.

Yep. First it's the ID card then it's the chip.

Let's all get "chipped" yay! Wooooh wooooh wooooh! :applause:

And there are christians which even support the national ID as if this would protect them from the bad bad immigrants which come into the USA anyway. How silly. :BangHead:

If the USA really wanted to keep the immigrants out they would do something to protect the borders. :thumbs:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2070787256267669114

 

[xdisciplex]

Could the "National I.D." be (or become later) the Mark of the Beast?


Answer: No

The Mark of the Beast has to do with those who DO NOT keep the commandments of God... all you have to do is look at the characteristics of God's people who DO NOT have the Mark of the Beast to figure out the characteristics of those who DO. see below:


Revelation 14:
6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.



Note that the Mark of the Beast is in the forehead or hand... and the commandments were to be in the forehead and hand. You will have either Satan's mark or God's mark.

Deuteronomy 6:
1: Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you
8: And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

I disagree.
Without the mark you can neither buy nor sell this means it has to be a real device and not just something spiritual.

 

[Claudia_T]

I disagree.
Without the mark you can neither buy nor sell this means it has to be a real device and not just something spiritual.

BECAUSE you dont bow down and worship man, namely the Pope by disregarding God's commandments.... you cannot buy and sell....

the devices, edits, etc on just HOW you wont be able to buy and sell are a different matter..


the keeping or not keeping of the commandments OF GOD are the REASON you wont be able to buy and sell

 

[xdisciplex]

Could you please explain this to me? Will they have a small antichrist puppet in every supermarket and either you bow down or you cannot buy? This makes a whole lotta sense.
And when you want to sell or buy over the internet you first have to confirm that you bow down to the antichrist before you can complete your order.

 

[BobRyan]

It is more likely that they have an antichrist bit of legislation - a contract, a legal document that you have to sign or agree to -- and in that document is some statement that is opposed to the Law of God.

By signing the document you do get your ID card "approved" for buying and selling. Otherwise they simply revoke your ID card.

It is pretty simple - logical and predictable. Nothing really comlicated to think through here EXCEPT what part of God's moral law the "agreement" will be targetting.

Based on Rev 13 and 14 where true worship and false worship is being contrasted - one would be wise to suspect it has something to do with worship.

Just stating the obvious.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Of course given that many Christians today are already trying to chop/slash/slice/dice the Law of God without the Mark of the Beast initiative seen in Rev 13 and 14 it is likely to be very hard for most Christians to tell the difference between what they have been doing in the past and what is being legislated as the law of the land.

No wonder that God predicts this to be a powerful delusion in 2Thess 2.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[xdisciplex]

It is more likely that they have an antichrist bit of legislation - a contract, a legal document that you have to sign or agree to -- and in that document is some statement that is opposed to the Law of God.

By signing the document you do get your ID card "approved" for buying and selling. Otherwise they simply revoke your ID card.

Why is this more likely? Your option is possible. But I think since we already have chips which are implanted it is much more likely that they really chip the people. I think they will increase the whole "the bad bad terrorists want to kill us all, we need to get chipped to be safe" stuff and they will turn the citizens into totally terrified individuals which puts them into the psychological state of a child which will sacrifice all sorts of freedoms for security. This is how it works. All you have to do is scare people and they will sacrifice their freedom for the promise of security. As if chipping the good guys protected us from the bad guys. Great logic. :laugh:

 

[BobRyan]

The "method" for tracking ID's is irrelevant - a driver's license will do - but chips are fine too.

The point that this is driven based on FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) centered on national/global civil unrest was predicted in SDA literature 150 years ago.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[xdisciplex]

The point that this is driven based on FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) centered on national/global civil unrest was predicted in SDA literature 150 years ago.

This is good but I still don't want to become an SDA because of this.

 

[BobRyan]

My point is that the fact that we can just now start seeing how it is that something like terrorism could realistically result in a scenario of unrest that then impacts our liberties along a path consistent with Rev 13 -- does not mean that this was not known prophetically almost 150 years ago and consistently published for the past 150 years.