Covenant Theology, Christocentric Theology (New Covenant Theology), and Dispensationalism...oh my

[JonC]

The important thing to remember is that the framework one chooses through which to interpret Scripture affects the outcome.

Covenant Theology is typically associated with the Presbyterian Church, the Anglican Church and the Catholic Church (the Catholic Church differs on man's responsibility under the covenant of grace).

The Christocentric Theology (NCT) is most often associated with Baptist churches but has again gained ground among Reformed churches.

Dispensationalism (modern Dispensationalism) was initially associated with Calvinistic churches but is often connected to Baptist and evangelical churches as well.

And there are different forms of each.

I just wanted to give a very brief summary. From here we can discuss which one we prefer, which we view as most biblical, strengths and weaknesses of each...whatever.

 

[JonC]

I prefer the NCT. One reason is I grew up in a Baptist church and this was the most common presentation. Another reason is the focus is on Christ, not the men God chose and not God's interaction with man during specific periods of history. I also like that NCT is the one that relates most closely with the flow of Scripture and it's dependency on the text of the Bible.

That said, this does not mean I ignore covenants and dispensations in Scripture.

 

[Mike Stidham]

There are many forms of Covenant Theology, the most prominent being within Reformed Theology and Methodist Theology. The most common among Baptists is Covenant Theology within Reformed Theology, so that is the direction I am going.

As a Baptist who spent a number of years in exile as a Methodist (long story), I can't recall, even in seminary classes on Methodist theology, ever hearing any discussion of Covenant Theology as they were much too obsessed with gender and sexuality issues.

Could you expand a bit on the Methodist version of Covenant theology as a sidebar?

 

[JonC]

As a Baptist who spent a number of years in exile as a Methodist (long story), I can't recall, even in seminary classes on Methodist theology, ever hearing any discussion of Covenant Theology as they were much too obsessed with gender and sexuality issues.

Could you expand a bit on the Methodist version of Covenant theology as a sidebar?

Mike,

Wesleyan covenant theology is similar to what has been offered. Only Adam and Eve are under the covenant of works. All man afterwards are under the covenant of grace. The Law is under the covenant of grace and applied to all men (as an opportunity for all men to be saved).

I am less familiar with Methodist Theology than I would like (if you would be willing to discuss your experiences in the Method Church on a thread I'd love to learn more).

But here is a link to one of Wesley's sermons.
The Righteousness of Faith – John Wesley

I'll look around and see what I can find (most of my books are packed away). If you discover any more information on the subject please let us know.

 

[JonC]

I need to clarify something:

I am not advocating one method over another. I do believe NCT the better framework because I see it as contributing the least to the Scriptures being read.

NCT is the position I hold.

But each Christian is capable of studying God's Word and determining for themselves.

Christians differ in understanding, but Christ will make us all stand.

The purpose here is to understand and be understood - not to defend but explain - not to attack but clarify and seek clarity.

There are threads for debate. But before we can debate we have to at least have a basic understanding of what we are debating against.

 

[JonC]

1Co 2:2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

I think we would do so much better as believers if we would have that same resolution.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

As a Baptist who spent a number of years in exile as a Methodist (long story), I can't recall, even in seminary classes on Methodist theology, ever hearing any discussion of Covenant Theology as they were much too obsessed with gender and sexuality issues.

Could you expand a bit on the Methodist version of Covenant theology as a sidebar?

There is a book in my possession called John Wesley: In the Reformation Tradition by Roland Burroughs (Tentmaker Publications. ISBN 978-1-901670-88-2). I think it's probably a bit of a stretch, but it gives a good picture of Wesley's origins and influences, many of which were Puritan.
I am sure that he would be utterly horrified at the state of Methodism today, not to mention that of the Church of England, of which he was a member all his life.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think we would do so much better as believers if we would have that same resolution.

Thinking in this context is a supposition, not a solid definitive position.

 

[JonC]

There is a book in my possession called John Wesley: In the Reformation Tradition by Roland Burroughs (Tentmaker Publications. ISBN 978-1-901670-88-2). I think it's probably a bit of a stretch, but it gives a good picture of Wesley's origins and influences, many of which were Puritan.
I am sure that he would be utterly horrified at the state of Methodism today, not to mention that of the Church of England, of which he was a member all his life.

It is very difficult to reconcile Wesleyan Perfection (Entire Sanctification) with the state of the Methodist Church today.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anglican oligarchs in England used such suppositions ( as reality ) to murder Covenanters in Scotland… my wife’s ancestors being among those shot for their religious convictions. So we can clearly see the hypocrisy of such positions that claim to follow Christ while murdering those who follow Covenant theology.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is very difficult to reconcile Wesleyan Perfection (Entire Sanctification) with the state of the Methodist Church today.

I would most heartily agree with that!!!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is a book in my possession called John Wesley: In the Reformation Tradition by Roland Burroughs (Tentmaker Publications. ISBN 978-1-901670-88-2). I think it's probably a bit of a stretch, but it gives a good picture of Wesley's origins and influences, many of which were Puritan.
I am sure that he would be utterly horrified at the state of Methodism today, not to mention that of the Church of England, of which he was a member all his life.

Diablo has a foothold & likened to cancer.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The end result of Anglicanism is non conformity… specifically Quakers, Mormons, JW, Congregational Churches etc

I would even go so far as to suggest Methodists. Where are they all today?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I am not advocating one method over another. I do believe NCT the better framework

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[JonC]

Thanks for clarifying.

You are welcome.

We often seem more accustomed to debate than edification. To be fair, that seems the reason many join the forum (which is fine as we do have debate sections, and nothing is wrong with debating ones views).

At some point I will probably post a discussion of New Covenant Theology on the debate section as we benefit by learning the objections to our positions. More times than not those outside a view see what those within cannot.