coverings & such

[ktn4eg]

I guess that our Christian military men in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc., are in serious violation of I Corinthians 11:4 when they pray to God in combat situations with their helmets on, right?

 

[Eliyahu]

I guess that our Christian military men in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc., are in serious violation of I Corinthians 11:4 when they pray to God in combat situations with their helmets on, right?

Read the Bible.
Paul was talking about the Headships and the Church order.

We pray 24 hours a day but it is not what the Bible is talking about.


1 Cor 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Human beings have always brought all the reasons and excuses to disobey the commandments of God throughout the ages.

Hope you will not do so.

Otherwise teach God to improve His Bible!

 

[Eliyahu]

Many people today have dismissed this today as "cultural", but it just dawned on me. The Jewish head coverings are specifially for prayer, aren't they? Could the purpose of this command from Paul have been to distinguish Christians from Jews? And its "dishonorable", because it would be like a sign of rejection of Christ, and thus "cover His glory"?
I always thought it was unfair, because men are the ones who lose their hair, and might want to keep it covered, not women (though they do have their "bad hair days").

Even Messianic Jews today often have the Kefa on their heads, excusing that they show the humbleness to God, but it is the covering of the glory of Jesus Christ.

I don't say this relates to the Salvation, but this is one of the factors of Obedience.

We realize that Reformers made so many mistakes like killing Anabaptists. Were they OK because they were born again believers, not the Roman Catholic?

It is time for the believers to recover what was the true meaning of the teachings in NT.

 

[Eliyahu]

I sometimes enter the restaurant with my hat on, then take off the hat when I pray for the meals. Is it too difficult?

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

It is time for the believers to recover what was the true meaning of the teachings in NT.

Love that pun. :laugh:

 

[webdog]

I sometimes enter the restaurant with my hat on, then take off the hat when I pray for the meals. Is it too difficult?

Removing a hat is not difficult. You just reach up...grab...

Oh, you mean is it difficult following YOUR standards? To me it is...as Christ died to free me from legalism and the standards set forth by man.

 

[bound]

I guess that our Christian military men in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc., are in serious violation of I Corinthians 11:4 when they pray to God in combat situations with their helmets on, right?

This is what I call allowing economia (i.e exception) to alter the akrivia (i.e. rigid application of canon). It is always a bad thing to do this as it allows the erosion of praxis (proper practice).

 

[DeeJay]

For those who think it's disrespectful for men to wear hats in church...do you keep a supply of hats available for women who attend who have short hair?

Another thing I don't get are those who think it's ok to wear hats to church...but then insist one who wears a hat must take it off to pray. Where is this in Scripture? Does the removal of the hat allow the prayer to leave the mind or something? I understand some do it out of "respect" or "reverance"...but this is purely tradition of man, IMO. They didn't have ball caps in Jesus' day. This is purely a cultural issue that some turn into a spirituality gauge.

I think it was a cultural thing in the bible. This culture has gone away with women covering their heads.

However it has not with men removing their hats. Dont you remove your hat for the national anthem. If you remove your hat out of respect for your countrys flag. Why would you not show at least that same respect for God?

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

However it has not with men removing their hats. Dont you remove your hat for the national anthem. If you remove your hat out of respect for your countrys flag. Why would you not show at least that same respect for God?

It makes me sad that most of the men (not all) who remove their hats for the national anthem are "old timers". Most (I did not say all) of the younger generation does not even salute the flag anymore. :tear:

Like webdog said - that was back when the only men wearing ball caps were baseball players. Now everyone wears them whether male or female.

It is a act of courtesy to remove one's hat when entering an establishment or a home. It is showing respect to the owner.

Knighthood has vanished...

 

[webdog]

I think it was a cultural thing in the bible. This culture has gone away with women covering their heads.

However it has not with men removing their hats. Dont you remove your hat for the national anthem. If you remove your hat out of respect for your countrys flag. Why would you not show at least that same respect for God?

Like you said, it's cultural. It's respectful to burp really loud after a good meal in some countries...and disrespectful to sit with your toes pointed towards someone in some countries. Removing your hat during the national anthem is tradition of man, and not removing it during prayer or walking into church is not showing disrespect. That's apples and oranges.

Today's the first I've heard of removing your hat going into somebodies house...

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Great discussion! I am short on time or I would have more to say. I am late to church and cannot find the hat I am looking for. I’ll have to respond to the other posts later. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

Like you said, it's cultural.

Concerning the church...
When does a command from the Lord become "cultural?'

1 Corinthians 11:4-5 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

 

[webdog]

Concerning the church...
When does a command from the Lord become "cultural?'

1 Corinthians 11:4-5 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Do the women in your hats wear head coverings when they pray?

 

[DHK]

Do the women in your hats wear head coverings when they pray?

I don't force anyone to do anything including having private devotions, praying in public, etc. It must be a conviction from the heart. It is taught in the church. My wife wears a headcovering in the service, as do many others. Do all? No. Do all wear skirts dresses? No, but the majority do. The same teaching applies.

 

[DeeJay]

Like you said, it's cultural. It's respectful to burp really loud after a good meal in some countries...and disrespectful to sit with your toes pointed towards someone in some countries. Removing your hat during the national anthem is tradition of man, and not removing it during prayer or walking into church is not showing disrespect. That's apples and oranges.

Today's the first I've heard of removing your hat going into somebodies house...

I supose if the culture where you live is to remove you hat to show respect then you should do it in church. If you live in a culture where you do not show respect by removing your hat then it is ok not to.

The way I was raised, we remove our hats to show respect.

Interesting though. I was not taught that I have to remove my hat when I enter a house. But only when I sit down to the table to eat. Cultural difference I guess.

 

[webdog]

I don't force anyone to do anything including having private devotions, praying in public, etc. It must be a conviction from the heart. It is taught in the church. My wife wears a headcovering in the service, as do many others. Do all? No. Do all wear skirts dresses? No, but the majority do. The same teaching applies.

So you essentially allow people to dishonor themselves, and in essence, the church? As their pastor, aren't you responsible for what happens? Would you allow a woman to be in your pulpit if her convictions allowed?

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Interesting though. I was not taught that I have to remove my hat when I enter a house.

Why do you think in the 'olden days' everyone had a hat rack right inside the door?

 

[webdog]

What's a hat rack? I have the white plastic kind that can keep my ball caps nice and organized. Is that it?

This thread is a history lesson for me

 

[Eric B]

Concerning the church...
When does a command from the Lord become "cultural?'

1 Corinthians 11:4-5 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Well, for one thing; Paul appeals to "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?" But today, nobody, unless following those particular old traditions, would know this. It's not a universal knowledge. Again, to Muslims, this would mean covering the woman from head to toe.

It makes me sad that most of the men (not all) who remove their hats for the national anthem are "old timers". Most (I did not say all) of the younger generation does not even salute the flag anymore. :tear:

Like webdog said - that was back when the only men wearing ball caps were baseball players. Now everyone wears them whether male or female.

It is a act of courtesy to remove one's hat when entering an establishment or a home. It is showing respect to the owner.

Knighthood has vanished...

I think there are a lot worse things to be sad about than some tip of the hat people did, while committing other sins that were common back then, such as oppressing their fellow man (even trying to reason that others were only 3/5th of a man, etc), oppressing women, often.

What difference does it make to you, really, whether someone removes their hat? What good does that do for humanity, the Gospel, or any other aspect of life? Again, that is straining at a gnat. I would rather have people respect me in ther word and direct actions. Taking a hat off means nothing when they're stabbing me in the back just as much as anybody today might.

 

[DeeJay]

Why do you think in the 'olden days' everyone had a hat rack right inside the door?

The very few that have them now, call them coat racks.