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Creation Evolutionism and Aliens

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by BobRyan, Jul 19, 2003.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    (ColoradoFB brought this question up on the thread about "Design".)

    He asks about the idea of "aliens" and how that fits/or-does-not-fit in with Evolutionists and also those who accept the Creation account of the Bible.

    As one who accepts the Bible "Account" of God who "in SIX days the Lord created the Heavens and the Earth and all that is in them" AND who accepts the fact that Heb 11:3 and Heb 1:2 show that God is the creator of "The Worlds" - my answer would be that God is "bigger" than humanity on this ONE world according to scripture. He is the creator of the "WORLDS".

    And of course all Christians (that believe the Bible) accept that Angels are real life aliens not from this world but able to visit earth.

    Thoughts?

    Bob
     
    #1 BobRyan, Jul 19, 2003
  2. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

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    Of course Angels are also aliens, by definition.

    Consider the opening statements of Job, where all the "sons of God" are come together, and Satan among them. In some sense, they are his peers. Satan reported he came from walking to and fro on the earth. Where, I wonder, did the others come from? Where did they walk? What were their responsibilities before God in that location?

    Consider the Seraphim:

    Conjecture: Was Isaiah seeing a spectacle somewhat akin to the performances at halftime at football games, or the greatest circus acts, the greates olympic gymnastic exhibitions?

    I see a whole planet consisting of beings in a reduced gravity and/or thicker atmosphere, able to fly, with the wing structure described - little wings for steering, greator wings for power of flight. With lots of practice, they can do athletic displays marvelous to behold, including controlled flight without the use of the steering wings! They compete in planet wide contests and the best of them are allowed to perform in this special event, witnessed by Isaiah in his vision.

    They are, I further conjecture, an unfallen race.
     
    #2 Paul of Eugene, Jul 19, 2003
  3. Elena

    Elena New Member

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    EF You bet. In fact, you can find out all about them (and the 'missing' years of Jesus) at

    http://www.urantia.org
     
    #3 Elena, Jul 19, 2003
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    At the end of Hebrews chapter 1 we are told that God made the Angels as ministers of light and that now - after the fall of man - they are ministering to the saints for the purpose of salvation.

    In Daniel 9 an angel is sent from heaven to earth at the start of Daniel's prayer - and arrives on earth at or near the end of that prayer in Daniel 9.

    In Rev 12 the Devil and his angels are at war with Michael and His angels - and the devii loses the battle and is cast down to earth "Knowing that he has but a short time".

    There are a number of places in the NT where events on earth are said to be a "spectacle" to beings outside our planet.

    But of course - believing that would mean that we believed the Bible. The idea being - that God knows more about what is happening out there than we do -

    Bob
     
    #4 BobRyan, Jul 19, 2003
  5. Elena

    Elena New Member

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    EF Henry Morris explains that this is how the craters on the moon were formed.
     
    #5 Elena, Jul 19, 2003
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Nothing in Rev 12 mentions "craters on the moon".

    But I am sure that from the volutionist POV - any story is an "interesting one".

    I was simply looking at the information God's Word provides.

    Bob
     
    #6 BobRyan, Jul 19, 2003
  7. Elena

    Elena New Member

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    Um, Henry Morris is a creationist.
     
    #7 Elena, Jul 19, 2003
  8. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

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    Elena, about that Uratana book . . Hmmmm. That's a little bit much for this baptist to go for. By the way, they got the age of the universe wrong in that book. It's only about 14 billion years, not over 600 billion years.
     
    #8 Paul of Eugene, Jul 20, 2003
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know. And I still think he was engaged in a little "story telling" on that moon crater point being related to the Rev 12 "war".

    I don't think he was making a doctrinal statement OR a scientific one. Just engaging in a little "story telling" which I don't happen to agree with.

    Bob
     
    #9 BobRyan, Jul 20, 2003
  10. Elena

    Elena New Member

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    EF Does anyone on here have a sense of humor [​IMG]
    By the way, Henry Morris Sr of the ICR did indeed assert that the craters on the moon resulted from the battle between Michael and the devil.
     
    #10 Elena, Jul 20, 2003
  11. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

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    Well, the only problem with attempting to parady someone's extreme viewpoint is someone else will hold it perfectly seriously! I'm very glad you see through the nonsense on that site, but you must realize there are people who take it perfectly seriously.
     
    #11 Paul of Eugene, Jul 21, 2003
  12. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    There's evidence that planets capable of supporting life are possible in other stars' planetary systems. It's even possible for life to exist on planets elsewhere. However, to date, there's no evidence of life, let alone intelligent life, existing elsewhere.
     
    #12 Johnv, Jul 21, 2003
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It is "sometimes" claimed that the discovery that God created civilized intelligent life outside of earth "would change the Christian religion".

    Well "would it really"?

    Angels are also divinely, directly, supernaturally "created by God" just as we are. And they are "not from New Jersey". So would that "really" change your view of "Christianity"?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #13 BobRyan, Jul 26, 2003
  14. mdkluge

    mdkluge Guest

    Bob Ryan wrote:
    I'd like to take this in a context perhaps different from what Bob Ryan intended. (Yeah, I'm taking it out of context...)

    Mark Twain wrote a story in later life about a certain Captain Storm-something-or-other's visit to heaven. Captain S. died and was riding his commet to heaven when he veered off course to race another similarly-destined soul. As a result he arrived at the wrong pearly gate. Those living there were from another planet and had great difficulty finding out where Captain S. belonged. Captain S. vainly tried to described his world, finally coming up with the brainstorm that his world was the one the Savior had come to save. The response was that the Savior had come to save all of the worlds with all of their civilizations.

    With that as background I ask a stronger question than Bob Ryan: How would learning of other civilizations on other planets saved by a savior (arbitrarily close in likeness, if you wish, to Jesus of Earth) affect Christianity of Earth? Or how would learning of the existence of many extraterrestrial civilizations, none of whom have Christian-like religions affect terrestrial Christianity?
     
    #14 mdkluge, Jul 26, 2003
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    "God so loved the World" that He Gave His only begotten Son. (Not -- God so Loved the WorldS).

    However Heb 1:2 speaking of Christ as God - states "Through Whom He Made the Worlds".

    And Heb 11:3 "By FAITH we UNDERSTAND that the WORLDS were prepared by the Word of God - so that what is SEEN was NOT MADE out things which are Visible".

    The indication is that God is the creator of the "Worlds" not just This World. However Christ is only the Savior of This World (John 3:16) NOT because God does not "so love" the others - but because they have not fallen.

    So "an easy solution" is that there could be other worlds - but they have not fallen as did Adam and Eve. God is still walking with them in the Garden in the "cool of the evening".

    But there is another problem - IF you keep up with the "basics" then clearly - Christianity shows that there are both good and evil angels - AND it teaches (in Rev 12) that Satan and HIS angels were cast down to earth.

    IF these "aliens" are as powerful as scripture describes them AND have the ability to appear or dissappear as scripture describes them (and of course we ALL believe the Bible here) - then WE are the "indians" and THEY are already the European Armies with vastly superior technology. Indeed - the Christian Bible insists that the "Prince of the power of the air" and the "god of this world" even offerred to hand over the planet to Christ (Matt 4) in one of Satan's effots to "tempt" Christ.

    Who can say that they may not "toy" with our SETI-like observes.

    Bob
     
    #15 BobRyan, Jul 27, 2003
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