Cults, Christian Faith and Practice

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

It would seem to me that when one counts another as a member of a cult, we would be counting them out of the kingdom, at least from our limited perspective. It would be as to say, you’re lost and in need of a Savior. Do you agree or disagree?

What must I believe in to be saved? What are the basic beliefs one must hold to be accepted by God as a child of His? What are the basic beliefs that one has to hold to in order be considered a brother or sister in the Lord by those on the list? What beliefs automatically count one as being outside of the Christian faith and as such a member of a cult and or lost?

 

[carpro]

Following the teachings of false prophets could leave one outside the faith.

There is no doubt that Joseph Smith and Ellen White were false prophets.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Carpro: Following the teachings of false prophets could leave one outside the faith.

There is no doubt that Joseph Smith and Ellen White were false prophets

HP: Sin can leave one outside the faith, but that does not necessitate one being in a cult, nor does sin necessitate one being accused of being part of a cult simply because they sin. False prophets abound in may groups. I believe the WOF groups might well be a prime example. Shall we denote all in that group as members of a cult?

Try giving the questions of the OP a shot.

 

[BobRyan]

IT is much EASIER to say "these are people that are not popular" than to actually list doctrinal statements saying "if you do not accept this point you must go to hell".

I.e. Propaganda is always easier to state and regurgitate than demonstrating and proving Bible doctrine.

So I will take the high road on this - if no one else will.

The bounds I am trying NOT to cross here is making John the baptizer out to be a member of a cult.

1. The Bible (ALL 66 books) is the Word of God - AND is to be the ruler/judge/standard by which all doctrine is to be tested.
2. Jesus is the Son of God and died a substitutionary atoning death for the sins of all mankind
3. We are saved by Grace through faith not by the works of the law.
4. We are judged by the Romans 2 standard stated in Romans 2:11-13.
5. Christ was bodily resurrected and will return to earth in bodily literal form at "His appearing" - His return.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I would LIKE to have added something about the Trinity but I am not sure that John fully understood the third person of the Godhead.

 

[carpro]

HP: Sin can leave one outside the faith, but that does not necessitate one being in a cult, nor does sin necessitate one being accused of being part of a cult simply because they sin. False prophets abound in may groups. I believe the WOF groups might well be a prime example. Shall we denote all in that group as members of a cult?

You can if you wish. That won't make it so.

Nice twist, but it just doesn't cut it.

Ellen White and Joseph Smith were false prophets. There are and have been many others. They were just the most successful and those that follow their heretical teachings are cultists, whether they realize it or not.

It is evident by the postings that there are some very persuasive acolytes of Ellen White here on BB.

I pray that someday they realize that the Bible is all they need.

 

[SBCPreacher]

What must I believe in to be saved? What are the basic beliefs one must hold to be accepted by God as a child of His? What are the basic beliefs that one has to hold to in order be considered a brother or sister in the Lord by those on the list? What beliefs automatically count one as being outside of the Christian faith and as such a member of a cult and or lost?

I believe that there are three essential doctrines of Biblical Christianity:
1. The deity of Christ, which includes a belief the Trinity.
2. The literal bodily resurrection of Christ.
3. Salvation by grace, not by works.
And “religion” that denies any of these three are cults, and following any cult doctrine, no matter how sincere you are, leaves you in a lost condition.

Romans 10:9-10

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

Who is Ellen White? I have never heard of her.

We are saved through our faith that Jeaus died on the cross for OUR{/b] sins.

All the rest is doctrine, and tells us how to live a Christian life, but it dosen't save us.

Bill :godisgood:

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Who is Ellen White? I have never heard of her.

We are saved through our faith that Jeaus died on the cross for OUR{/b] sins.

All the rest is doctrine, and tells us how to live a Christian life, but it dosen't save us.

Bill :godisgood:

Good point Bill. Salvation is by grace thru faith, not by having the correct doctrine.

I think there are a lot of Christians with bad (or worse) theology and more than a few folks with great theology but with no faith.

 

[BobRyan]

Who is Ellen White? I have never heard of her.

Read Carpro's post carefully and then notice that I am careful to quote her in every one of my posts just to back him up with at least some factual data.

(fun with Carpro) :laugh:

ok - back to the OP - and what about that guy John the baptizer? Cult?

The first century Christians attracted their share of pejorative reference terms like "sect" they were being called "a sect of Judaism".

And clearly they were "unpopular enough" to richly deserve such a slam for indeed "popularity" is generally the measure that is used.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I believe that there are three essential doctrines of Biblical Christianity:
1. The deity of Christ, which includes a belief the Trinity.

"Still" waiting for an insightful comment on John the baptizer.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Speaking of John the baptizer

IT is much EASIER to say "these are people that are not popular" than to actually list doctrinal statements saying "if you do not accept this point you must go to hell".

I.e. Propaganda is always easier to state and regurgitate than demonstrating and proving Bible doctrine.

So I will take the high road on this - if no one else will.

The bounds I am trying NOT to cross here is making John the baptizer out to be a member of a cult.

1. The Bible (ALL 66 books) is the Word of God - AND is to be the ruler/judge/standard by which all doctrine is to be tested.
2. Jesus is the Son of God and died a substitutionary atoning death for the sins of all mankind
3. We are saved by Grace through faith not by the works of the law.
4. We are judged by the Romans 2 standard stated in Romans 2:11-13.
5. Christ was bodily resurrected and will return to earth in bodily literal form at "His appearing" - His return.

 

[SBCPreacher]

"Still" waiting for an insightful comment on John the baptizer.

in Christ,

Bob

I never mentioned him. What do you want to know?

 

[BobRyan]

I want to know where your line item on the trinity puts John the baptizer.

Recall that his disciples were quoted as saying "we are not even aware that there even is such a thing as the holy spirit"

As I stated in my post - I would have loved to have added the Trinity doctrine in there - but I can not given the facts regarding John.

Originally Posted by SBCPreacher
I believe that there are three essential doctrines of Biblical Christianity:
1. The deity of Christ, which includes a belief the Trinity.

 

[SBCPreacher]

I want to know where your line item on the trinity puts John the baptizer.

Recall that his disciples were quoted as saying "we are not even aware that there even is such a thing as the holy spirit"

As I stated in my post - I would have loved to have added the Trinity doctrine in there - but I can not given the facts regarding John.

I hope this is not news to you, but John ain't part of the Trinity.

 

[BobRyan]

July 7, 2007 on the seventh-day of the week.

All days are good days to have prayer -- so is that one.

 

[BobRyan]

I hope this is not news to you, but John ain't part of the Trinity.

True.

Is my point completely getting past you??

 

[SBCPreacher]

True.

Is my point completely getting past you??

The OP said this:
"What must I believe in to be saved? What are the basic beliefs one must hold to be accepted by God as a child of His?"

Thus, my response was given.
What does John the Baptist have to do with it? What does he have to do with the Trinity? Is it the Trinity that you are having difficulty with? I really don't understand.

 

[SBCPreacher]

July 7, 2007 on the seventh-day of the week.

All days are good days to have prayer -- so is that one.

I'm definitely not following you here.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm definitely not following you here.

Sorry about that - changed topics. I started a thread for that topic - it does not go on this thread.