Cults, Christian Faith and Practice

[Pastor_Bob]

This was not to say that there was no conditions to salvation, or to say that repentance faith and obedience to the end were not required of man, but rather that they were not the grounds of their salvation,

You don't find this in the text.

Paul was trying to get the Galatians to understand that NOTHING, including circumcision, could save them or keep them from avoiding the penalty of the moral law, apart from sincere repentance and faith in Christ and in the CONTINUED obedience that is evidenced by a life of ‘walking in the Spirit.’

Again, not in the text.

Paul was warning these Galatians that they could only be kept in a right relationship with God...

God Himself keeps us in a right relationship. We are His children and He is our Father. That relationship will never change. Our fellowship with our heavenly Father is affected when we fail to "walk in the Spirit" and thus "fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Bob: Our fellowship with our heavenly Father is affected when we fail to "walk in the Spirit" and thus "fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

HP: Indeed it is. The Scripture tells us clearly how it is affected, and it is not a loss of rewards that we will face. The Scripture states “as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” That is the plain teaching of the Word of God.

I desire to count you as my friend and brother in the Lord as well Pastor Bob. Regardless of everything else, I trust that we will find our hearts better than our heads, and will both be found having Christ as our Advocate at the judgment we both shall attend. :thumbs:

 

[Pastor_Bob]

I desire to count you as my friend and brother in the Lord as well Pastor Bob. Regardless of everything else, I trust that we will find our hearts better than our heads, and will both be found having Christ as our Advocate at the judgment we both shall attend.

God bless you brother. I can agree with that.
:godisgood:

 

[BobRyan]

Apparently you are not grasping my understanding of this passage, or else I am not explaining myself plainly enough. I do not support "saved apart from Christ" in any form or fashion. I do not support the "severed from Christ" translation.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (KJV)

Paul is simply teaching these Christians that it iis vain for them to attempt to unite the two systems.

So you argue that "Christ is become of no effect unto you" is not the same as "severed from Christ" - and you do that because you suppose that we CAN still be saved without an effect/benefit given to us by Christ? Surely you would agree that if we EVER should come to the point that Christ (the Messiah) has no (good) effect on us -- that we can not "be saved anyway" since that IS the (good) effect that the Messiah has for sinners under the Gospel. What am I missing?

If argue that "severed from Christ" can not possibly be the meaning of Gal 5:4 then do you also argue that "severed from Christ" (NASB and others) in Gal 5 is significantly different from the John 15 "branch removed from Christ" and so that translation should be rejected? If so -- how is it substantively different?

It seems to be identical.

They must either depend on their keeping the law and not the grace of Christ for their justification, or they can continue to trust Christ and therefore have no need of the law.

Seems like a good definition of "not saved" -- i don't see how salvation is obtained under that sytem of "law for justification not grace". Even Gal 3 denies salvation under such conditions.

However they clearly had to go FROM the "you were running well" condition mentioned in Gal 5 to the condemned stated of "fallen from Grace" and having Christ become of no bennefit at all to you (lost) to get to that graceless law-based justification state.

in Christ,

Bob