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Cup of Trembling

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Gina B, Dec 3, 2005.

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  1. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    I'm trying to get a good grasp on this, a great definition, explanation, why it's used and possible metaphorical meanings for it.

    I tried doing a search online, but I am not sure who is trustworthy and who is not.

    I will get into it more later, but for now, I'm looking for something I can use TODAY, some ideas, thoughts.

    Anyone have any?
     
    #1 Gina B, Dec 3, 2005
  2. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    BTW if there's any pastors reading this who have a good grasp on Isa. 51-52 and would be willing to talk on the phone sometime in the next 1/2 hour, you'd be my new best friend. Send me a pm with your number and I'll call, provided we are familiar with each other through this board and you're in the U.S.. [​IMG]
    Gina
     
    #2 Gina B, Dec 3, 2005
  3. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    bump
     
    #3 Gina B, Dec 3, 2005
  4. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    Ive never heard of "cup of trembling", and I wouldn't have any idea what it might refer to.
     
    #4 bapmom, Dec 3, 2005
  5. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    my husband isnt home, but I will call and ask him what he things. Wheres the passage Gina?
     
    #5 TaterTot, Dec 3, 2005
  6. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    #6 Gina B, Dec 3, 2005
  7. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    Gina,
    As I looked at it on my own, it is definetly related to Isaiah 51 from what I can see. It seems to speak of God's judgement, the kind that "sends people reeling" as the NIV translates it. It also seems to be related to "strong drink" as the isaiah 51 passage implies. Gods wrath is an awesome thing and I feel that this is what its referring to.
    I know I am not a pastor as you asked for in the OP, but on one has come, and I did get a degree from seminary with them preacher boys ;)
     
    #7 TaterTot, Dec 3, 2005
  8. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    i was looking at the Zechariah passage...12:2,3,6
     
    #8 TaterTot, Dec 3, 2005
  9. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    Thats some fierce jugdement in Isaiah isnt. He is very poetic and sometimes even sarcastic in his writings. As big as He is and as awesome things He had done, they still chose folly over truth. Sounds vaguely familiar.
     
    #9 TaterTot, Dec 3, 2005
  10. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Yes, it's a harsh chapter!

    I'm looking into it partly out of curiousity, which is why I'll continue to look into it after today, but the reasoning for trying to get quick ideas is that it's mentioned in a story I'm writing about, and I want to pull out that phrase, "cup of trembling" and relate it, but I need to understand it first.
     
    #10 Gina B, Dec 3, 2005
  11. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    have you read it in different translations? its not necesarily a cup, I think its definitely referring to wine and how the destruction that that can cause. If you want to look at lots of translations really quick, go to www.biblegateway.com
     
    #11 TaterTot, Dec 3, 2005
  12. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    In Rev 14:10 and 16:19 there is an allusion to the Isaiah passage regarding the cup of wrath (or trembling) Its not a direct quotation, but the image is there. After doing some word study, it definitely has to do with drunkenness, but you might have already known that.
     
    #12 TaterTot, Dec 3, 2005
  13. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    NO I DID NOT KNOW THAT!
    Why do you think it has to do with that? I totally missed that, and it has everything to do with what I need because the cup of trembling is mentioned in relation to alcohol, although it's not alcohol itself that's a problem in the story I'm working on.
    I'm so glad you're here.

    Keep talking. :)
     
    #13 Gina B, Dec 3, 2005
  14. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    AW, I had to leave for a while to go see The Nutcracker. I hope you didnt think I forgot.

    Well, verse 17 says "...who have drained it to its dregs the goblet that makes men stagger..." and thats an obvious allusion to the effects of alcohol. Down in verse 21, "Therefore, hear this, you afflicted one, made drunk, but not with wine..." and then again in verse 22 "..the cup that made you stagger".
    God's judgement on other nations is compared to drunkenness in other places as well. (Such as
    Isaiah. 29:9; 63:6; Jer 25:15-16 and others if you are interested to see them)

    I hope this helps. I would be interested to see what you are linking this to. I have enjoyed the interaction.
     
    #14 TaterTot, Dec 4, 2005
  15. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    The passage in Isaiah is part of a prophecy regarding Jerusalem. This city, as the chief religious city in Israel and therefore representative of all Israel, has ignored God for a long time and has and is now undergoing some of the wrath connected with that apostacy. This is HIS city, and the people He created to show Himself to the world.

    All through this section of Isaiah God is calling to His people: "Listen to me, my people; ...Awake, awake!...Rise up,..."

    Chapter 51 starts with the promise in verse 3 "The Lord will surely comfort Zion, and will look with compassion on all her ruins; he will make her deserts like Eden, her wastelands like the garden of the Lord. Joy and gladness will be found in her, thanksgiving and the sound of singing."

    But that is after He has dealt with her spiritual adultery.

    Israel was re-established in 1948 and since then has played the world's game in politics and not turned to the Lord who has been her true Founder. "Of all the sons she bore there was none to guide her; of all the sons she reared there was none to take her by the hand" (v. 18).

    As we see the way the Lord is allowing the Palestinians to torment Jerusalem, we see that she is, indeed, drinking the cup of His wrath that makes them stagger, "but not with wine" (v. 21). Chapter 51 closes with the promise that is indicated at the beginning: "See, I have taken out of your hand the cup that made you stagger; from that cup, the goblet of my wrath, you will never drink again. I will put it into the hands of your tormentors, who said to you, 'Fall prostrate that we may walk over you.' And you made your back like the ground, like a street to be walked over.'"

    We are seeing that exact thing happening right now with the Israelite 'concessions' regarding land. In case someone thinks this has to do with Isaiah's time and is not a prophecy, read the beginning of the next chapter:
    "Awake, awake, O Zion,
    clothe yourself with strength.
    Put on your garments of splendor,
    O Jerusalem, the holy city.
    The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again.
    Shake off your dust; rise up, sit enthroned, O Jerusalem.
    Free yourself from the chains on your neck,
    O captive daughter of Zion.

    For this is what the Lord says:
    'You were sold for nothing,
    and without money you will be redeemed.'"

    When you read the book of Isaiah and then look at the events of today, I don't think there is a lot of question about the fact that these prophecies are coming true before our eyes. It is one indication, at least to me, that these are truly the end times and we may rightfully be looking for the Lord.
     
    #15 Helen, Dec 4, 2005
  16. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    Isa. 51:1-16 was not in Isaiah's time or is being fulfilled now, it pertains to the Millennium when "everlasting salvation" and the restoration of Israel will occur.

    The cup of the LORD'S wrath (17-23) concerns Jerusalem in the "time of wrath" or "time of the end," it will take "a time, times, and half a time" (3.5 yrs.) for God's wrath to be completed (Dn. 11:36,40; 12:1,6b,7).

    Burn those Ellen White books!
     
    #16 prophecynut, Dec 4, 2005
  17. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    LOL, I don't have any of her books. I was simply looking at the text!
     
    #17 Helen, Dec 4, 2005
  18. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    Sorry, had you confused with Seventh Day Adventist.
     
    #18 prophecynut, Dec 4, 2005
  19. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    These parts stuck out and fit in with what I want to say.
    Thank you!
    Now to rewrite and work this in.
    Must have been a duh moment for me not to ask you first!

    Bapmom, I use the KJV. It's in there. It may be in other versions, but I know that it wasn't in some of them that I looked into.

    Tater, no problem! You gave me enough to work off of, got two pages done and technically that was all I needed. [​IMG] As far as what I'm linking it too, I wanted to know out of curiousity, but what I needed it for last night was a story for class that I'm analyzing. I really got into it because my mother died a heroine addict and my father was a musician and it just really spoke to me. A lot of people probably recognize it, it's called Sonny's Blues. (and probably my favorite of the one's we've done) The basic line of the part I'm analyzing is: black family in Harlem, parents have died, older brother becomes an algebra teacher, younger brother who wanted to play music becomes addicted to heroine. Long story short, they don't understand each other, in the scene I'm writing on, they end up relating through the music. Sonny plays, the brother sends up a drink (milk and scotch) and sees it on the piano shaking "like the very cup of trembling".
    That's a very quick explanation. I pulled out that phrase, cup of trembling, and am describing what it is, and then relating it to the story in two-three ways. One is that the drink itself is childish sin polluted still further with scorn, it is the communion cup in this neighborhood that all have shared in, and there is no escape, and none are better than the other no matter how much they are convinced that they've saved themselves through their actions. They're all still there, etc.., the addict cannot be normal without his heroine and the one who refuses to see problems isn't free from their consequences simply because he turned a blind eye to their existance.

    Another way I'm doing it is that it is not touching them. Both have had their share of it's dregs "in the past", but that is the old. This is the new, and while it trembles over them, the light of understanding has dawned and they are safe from it's fury.

    I'm also gonna go with "it's a cup with a drink in it. it's trembling on top of a piano because someone's playing it. duh."

    :D

    Anyhow, this is the second story I've been able to neatly package the gospel into, so that's pretty cool. I'm enjoying it. The first time I did it, the prof kept me after to ask me more. He didn't know some of the terms I used, in particular "sin nature" and asked what it was, I got to explain, he asked me to do another paper and explain more so that's part of what I'm trying to get done after I finish the "cup of trembling" story.
     
    #19 Gina B, Dec 4, 2005
  20. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    "Looking at the text" - That's what I did during the morning sevice while the Pastor was speaking on the "rock."

    It's common to have near term and far off prophecy in the same chapter or present tense and future tense combined in the same chapter, such as Isa. 51.

    51:1-2 in Isaiah's time.

    Verse 3 - Future, the Millenium

    4. Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: (Present tense)

    4. for (the) law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people (nations). (Millennium)

    5. Millennium

    6. Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: (Present)

    6. for the heavens shall vanish away like smote, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
    (The Day of God when earth is renovated by fire)

    6. but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished. (Eternal state after the fire)

    7. (Present tense)

    8. For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: (final judgment)

    8. but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation. (starting with the Millennium)

    9-10 (Present tense with history)

    11. Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and ....... (Returning Jews for the Millennium, 35:10; Mt. 24:31.)

    12-13 (Present to the future in the Antichrist as "the oppressor"). Israel's enemies during the Tribulation are "them that oppress" (49:26) - "I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh" in the NIV.

    14. (Jews held prisoners during the Tribulation; Lk. 21:24)

    15-16 Authority over creation and his chosen people.
     
    #20 prophecynut, Dec 4, 2005
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