Cutting off a Godly Seed

[Dr. Bob]

Some home school material came and my married kids asked about this new movement on NO birth control. They have LOTS of good (expensive) things for families.

But the question asked (to promote new books that are 'pro-20-kids in our homes') - Is cutting off the godly seed ever an act of good stewardship?

I was befuddled. Does anyone see birth control as "cutting off a godly seed"? I see this as abortion, or infant sacrifice (in OT days).

 

[just-want-peace]

What's the difference in having normal relations, but PREVENTING fertilization, and simply not having sexual relations to AVOID fertilization?

If a couple practice the "timing" method is this not a simplistic form of birth control.

Now once fertilization is a fact, it's a whole new ballgame.

 

[williemakeit]

There was an article in The Washington Times yesterday regarding the Muslim birthrate in Europe (or maybe a specific European country). If I recall correctly, the birthrate for Muslims was 3.5, while the birthrate for the Europeans was 1.7. I am not advocating that this is indeed the 'cutting off a godly seed'; however, there are legimate concerns that the European majority will one day be Muslim. The Washington Times also recently ran an article regarding the birthrate in the red states vs. the blue states here in the US. The Northeast (predominately blue states) and the Left Coast (again, blue states) had the lowest birth rates, while the red states (especially in the South) had much higher birth rates. Personally, I believe Christians (especially IFB) should make it part of their Christian walk to abstain from birth control. It definately wouldn't hurt to strengthen our numbers. From the biblical standpoint, I do not know how we can justify birth control. I am not commenting on the so-called rythmn method of birth control at this point.

 

[chipsgirl]

Any form of birth control is messing with God's plan. There should only be one form and that's abstinence! I have to agree with the Catholics when it comes to birth control.

 

[dianetavegia]

I disagree Chipsgirl. I think God gave us the sense to know when we have as many as we can care for and a permanent form of birth control is acceptable. There's scripture that tells us not to forsake coming together which would include abstinence.

I have no problem with vasectomy or a tubal if the husband refuses to have the easier procedure.

People use the ONE verse saying Happy is the man who has his quiverfull.

QUIVER

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by chipsgirl:
Any form of birth control is messing with God's plan. There should only be one form and that's abstinence! I have to agree with the Catholics when it comes to birth control.

Scripture doesn't support your position.

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
I have no problem with vasectomy or a tubal if the husband refuses to have the easier procedure.

Personally, if a husband would rather his wife have major surgery rahter than his having a simple outpatient procedure, then the dud is being selfish. But then, I'm also a person who had a vasectomy.

My reason was simple. While married to my ex-wife, she decveloped serious complications with her last pregnancy which hospitalized her, and could have quite possibly have killed her. Unfortunately, we had to make one of the most difficult choices a man can make, and had to terminate her pregnancy (she was 2 1/2 months along). I chose a vasecomy after that, because I didn't want to risk losing the mother of my children. Nor did I ever want to be put in the position of having decide to terminate the life of another of my unborn children.

Now, if someone wants to tell me I'm not living scripture by being fruitful and multiplying (aside from the fact that I have three children), I will happily tell them to walk a mile in my moccasins.

My brother also chose a vasectomy after his wife nearly died from a tubal pregnancy.

[ January 24, 2005, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

[chipsgirl]

I'll be honest. I didn't look to scripture for this one. I just feel that a man and woman shouldn't be together unless they are aware that it could result in pregnancy and if it does then they will do nothing to harm the pregnancy. Possibly when I am married and don't want to keep having kids I would change my mind but that's would be me being selfish and blocking God's will. I don't want to do that.

 

[Johnv]

I'm getting married in a few days. My wife and I will never have any children together (due to my previous vasectomy). Since I find no scripture that requires us to have children, anyone who attempts to say this is sin would be guilty of adding to scripture.

Now, the fact that you're honest helps a lot. This is not a scriptural issue, but an issue of your personal preference. This is perfectly allowable. If you feel that you and your husband do not want to prevent any pregnancy when you're married, that is your sovereign right, and I support it.

 

[superdave]

Any form of birth control is messing with God's plan. There should only be one form and that's abstinence!

That is interfering with God's plan as well is it not? To think that you can determine when and if you will have children in your marriage? It works great for single folks, but for married folks, it is in violation of Biblical mandates.
If you have a proper Biblical relationship with your spouse, you will not use this method either since it is more clearly unscriptural than any other method of BC. There are only 2 reasons to abstain that can be scripturally supported, and avoiding pregnancy is not one of them.

Do what you will regarding Birth Control, its a matter between you your spouse and God, and he will still determine when and if you have your children. Plenty of folks get pregnant on BC, whatever method, and plenty who aren't, don't.

There are a ton of considerations regarding how many children to have, lets look at a few.

1. Have a full quiver.

Being somewhat of a dispensational thinker when it comes to theological organization, you have to view what the original author (divine and human) had in mind when they wrote that. In the OT, the blessing was tied to the land, and the fruit of it, plus the blessing was tied to your ancestors. Not so much today, as our blessings are less tangible in nature, and not as physically specific. The fruit of the Spirit, and our spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus are not in any way tied to the number of children we have.

2. Interefering with God's Plan -- see above, almost everyone I have heard preach this, also advocates the rythym method (you do know what they call folks who use this method right? Pregnant)


3. I can't afford more than x number of kids -- What children God chooses to send your way, he will help you take care of, but that doesn't mitigate our responsibility for proper family planning and stewardship of our resources.

Unfortunately, I have also seen this doctrine taught heavily in many homeschool curriculums as well as the Bill Gothard Garbage. Maybe its a way for them to generate more revenue, but that might just be a little too cynical on my part.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by chipsgirl:
I'll be honest. I didn't look to scripture for this one. I just feel that a man and woman shouldn't be together unless they are aware that it could result in pregnancy and if it does then they will do nothing to harm the pregnancy. Possibly when I am married and don't want to keep having kids I would change my mind but that's would be me being selfish and blocking God's will. I don't want to do that.

There is birth control that does not harm a pregnancy; it just prevents it.

Saying that one is blocking God's will by preventing pregnancy is like saying we block God's will by taking medicine to get well. If we are sick, then God allowed it, right? So aren't we blocking God's will by taking medicine to get better?

Can't God override the birth control if he really wants you to conceive? Of course, He can, and He does! I think the only birth control that is 100% effective is abstinence (not counting cetain operations, and some of them are not always 100% effective).

 

[manchester]

Is it true that Christians always opposed birth control until the 1900s?

 

[Trotter]

I have yet to find any scripture that supports "no birth control"...outside of ripping it out of its context and making it perform circus tricks.

Birth control can be as simple as abstaining from relations during the high point of the woman's cycle. Would this be considered as "cutting off godly seed"?

Until there are solid arguements against the prevention of pregnancy, I'll regard this whole topic as neo-Catholicism.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[Salty]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I'm getting married in a few days... .

Are we all invited to the wedding? Pete & I will be glad to drive you guys around in our taxis!
I assume Dr Bob will be preforming the wedding and Diane will be maid of honor,.....

 

[Dr. Bob]

I WASN'T ASKED!!??! Probably the groom wants to wear a bow tie and figured I'd show him up.

But am sure glad he can't have children. Let the genes die out with him . . .

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by chipsgirl:
I'll be honest. I didn't look to scripture for this one. I just feel that a man and woman shouldn't be together unless they are aware that it could result in pregnancy and if it does then they will do nothing to harm the pregnancy. Possibly when I am married and don't want to keep having kids I would change my mind but that's would be me being selfish and blocking God's will. I don't want to do that.

This judgemental assesment is both unfair and unkind. If you choose this for yourself than you should do so, but you have no grounds to say that people who do otherwise are "selfish and blocking God's will."

 

[Deacon]

Again...We are stewards of what God has given us.

He gave us the ability to procreate...use that ability responsibility

God said, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth..." ...we've done that. Billons of people cover the earth, so many that in places they can't be fed.

In an agricultural society a large family was desired, (to have more laborers), today a large family isn't needed for that reason.

Good stewards will decide how large their family will be and accept the responcibility for those that God gives them.

There are plenty of verses that tell us that God is in control, He can give a child to the child-less. No birth control method is stronger than the will of God.

Rob

 

[superdave]

being selfish and blocking God's will. I don't want to do that.

Actually, thinking you can block God's will is probably more troubling to me than the actions of those who would attempt to avoid pregnancy.

 

[dh1948]

Is abstinence between a married couple not a form of birth control?

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by dh1948:
Is abstinence between a married couple not a form of birth control?

1Co 7:5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Abstinence is to be only for fasting and prayer.

 

[chipsgirl]

Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by chipsgirl:
I'll be honest. I didn't look to scripture for this one. I just feel that a man and woman shouldn't be together unless they are aware that it could result in pregnancy and if it does then they will do nothing to harm the pregnancy. Possibly when I am married and don't want to keep having kids I would change my mind but that's would be me being selfish and blocking God's will. I don't want to do that.

This judgemental assesment is both unfair and unkind. If you choose this for yourself than you should do so, but you have no grounds to say that people who do otherwise are "selfish and blocking God's will." </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not calling anyone selfish. I clearly said "me being selfish". I'm just stating my choice on the matter. I think it's up to the indiviual. I'm speaking for myself. I'm one of those people who really try to take as little medication as possible because I feel like it's messing with God's plan. It's not for everyone and I get that. It's just a personal choice. NNE should take offense to that.