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DEATH: Where do we go when we die?
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Of course the SDA and JW's don't believe in a literal hell......but they will if they don't receive the free gift of eternal life that the Lord Jesus paid for them on the cross.
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Of course the SDA and JW's don't believe in a literal hell......but they will if they don't receive the free gift of eternal life that the Lord Jesus paid for them on the cross.
BODY, SOUL AND SPIRIT
'And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME a living soul. ` Gen 2:7
Let us examine the picture this presents. God formed a body out of the dust of the ground. At this point it is not a person; it is simply a body-or more accurately, a corpse. Then God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life:" or in other words, moving air. As I mentioned earlier, the word "spirit" literally means air in motion. Breath is air in motion, and thus, spirit. Spirit is added to the body. Therefore, a body (corpse), plus spirit (breath), equals a LIVING SOUL.
Conversely, at death you have a body or a corpse again with no life in it. It is now a dead soul. Thus, "a living soul" is a body with a spirit. This is according to the Old Testament Hebrew language.
The Greek language In the New Testament has a slightly different connotation. The Greek word for "soul" is "psuche" (psoo-khay). In Greek thought, the word "psuche" actually meant the whole essence of a person. In other words the "soul" is the result of all the components together that make a person what he Is. However, in the New Testament, when it quotes from or refers back to the Old Testament, in these places we understand "soul" according to the Hebrew meaning.
'And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME a living soul. ` Gen 2:7
Let us examine the picture this presents. God formed a body out of the dust of the ground. At this point it is not a person; it is simply a body-or more accurately, a corpse. Then God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life:" or in other words, moving air. As I mentioned earlier, the word "spirit" literally means air in motion. Breath is air in motion, and thus, spirit. Spirit is added to the body. Therefore, a body (corpse), plus spirit (breath), equals a LIVING SOUL.
Conversely, at death you have a body or a corpse again with no life in it. It is now a dead soul. Thus, "a living soul" is a body with a spirit. This is according to the Old Testament Hebrew language.
The Greek language In the New Testament has a slightly different connotation. The Greek word for "soul" is "psuche" (psoo-khay). In Greek thought, the word "psuche" actually meant the whole essence of a person. In other words the "soul" is the result of all the components together that make a person what he Is. However, in the New Testament, when it quotes from or refers back to the Old Testament, in these places we understand "soul" according to the Hebrew meaning.
I am going to leave you with this for now and come back later tonight or tomorrow to see what people have posted... this might give you all something to think about...
To begin with, we do not naturally have immortality of the soul:
Rom:2:7: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1Cor:15:53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor:15:54: So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
'Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits (test the spirits), whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit (not every ghost but every motive) that confesseth that Jesus Christ Is come In the flesh is of God. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is the spirit of antichrist...' 1 J n 4:1-3 Gnostics held, according to the pre-existence doctrine, that Jesus was actually a spirit and not flesh. That, by definition, made them "antichrists." In Greek, "ANTI-CHRIST" means "IN PLACE OF CHRIST" (ANTE = in place of). The gnostic teaching of reincarnation described another Christ. This other Christ was the one whom the Gnostics claimed was not flesh. This imaginary non flesh christ was an "ante-Christ" - a christ who was put % place of" the true Christ. John was warning Christians against accepting a counterfeit ante-Christ.
This heresy is known as Gnosticism and it has serious implications concerning Jesus. "Gnostic" is a Greek word that means "to know." Therefore, a "Gnostic" is "one who knows." What does he claim to know? Simply this: that we are each immortal and cannot die. Therefore, the immortality of the soul was their salvation - omitting their need for Christ.
Now, if you think you have an immortal soul, then you must think that Jesus did too. If Jesus had an immortal soul, guess what? OUR SAVIOUR NEVER DIED FOR US! (Remember you cannot die if you are immortal). If you embrace the teachings of Gnosticism, you do not need Christ to die for you; all you need is someone to tell you that you are eternal -so you can "know" it. Of course, Gnostics do not believe Christ really died. They believe that Christ was not flesh because flesh is evil. Therefore, He was a spirit in a mere "envelope of flesh," and on the cross only the flesh died. Jesus, himself (the spirit), went right on living. In other words, Gnostics claim that Jesus did not die. Therefore, if He did not die He could not have been resurrected. That is Gnosticism. . Unfortunately, this very serious doctrinal error is believed by many in Christendom today.
To begin with, we do not naturally have immortality of the soul:
Rom:2:7: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1Cor:15:53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor:15:54: So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
'Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits (test the spirits), whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit (not every ghost but every motive) that confesseth that Jesus Christ Is come In the flesh is of God. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is the spirit of antichrist...' 1 J n 4:1-3 Gnostics held, according to the pre-existence doctrine, that Jesus was actually a spirit and not flesh. That, by definition, made them "antichrists." In Greek, "ANTI-CHRIST" means "IN PLACE OF CHRIST" (ANTE = in place of). The gnostic teaching of reincarnation described another Christ. This other Christ was the one whom the Gnostics claimed was not flesh. This imaginary non flesh christ was an "ante-Christ" - a christ who was put % place of" the true Christ. John was warning Christians against accepting a counterfeit ante-Christ.
This heresy is known as Gnosticism and it has serious implications concerning Jesus. "Gnostic" is a Greek word that means "to know." Therefore, a "Gnostic" is "one who knows." What does he claim to know? Simply this: that we are each immortal and cannot die. Therefore, the immortality of the soul was their salvation - omitting their need for Christ.
Now, if you think you have an immortal soul, then you must think that Jesus did too. If Jesus had an immortal soul, guess what? OUR SAVIOUR NEVER DIED FOR US! (Remember you cannot die if you are immortal). If you embrace the teachings of Gnosticism, you do not need Christ to die for you; all you need is someone to tell you that you are eternal -so you can "know" it. Of course, Gnostics do not believe Christ really died. They believe that Christ was not flesh because flesh is evil. Therefore, He was a spirit in a mere "envelope of flesh," and on the cross only the flesh died. Jesus, himself (the spirit), went right on living. In other words, Gnostics claim that Jesus did not die. Therefore, if He did not die He could not have been resurrected. That is Gnosticism. . Unfortunately, this very serious doctrinal error is believed by many in Christendom today.
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When Lazarus died, he stayed in the grave for 4 days straight. Jesus said Lazarus was "asleep". He was dead. Martha knew that he would rise again at the resurrection day.
Why when Lazarus was brought back to life, did he not have wondrous stories to tell about how it was those 4 days up in Heaven?
That's because Lazarus was not up in heaven then. He was in Abraham's Bosom, or Paradise. Jesus was the first to enter heaven from earth, as Jesus told Nicodemus: "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven -- the Son of Man." (John 3:13)
However, since Jesus ascended Himself, those who are in Him in faith are now with Him in heaven as soon as they are absent from the body.
Why when Lazarus was brought back to life, did he not have wondrous stories to tell about how it was those 4 days up in Heaven?
That's because Lazarus was not up in heaven then. He was in Abraham's Bosom, or Paradise. Jesus was the first to enter heaven from earth, as Jesus told Nicodemus: "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven -- the Son of Man." (John 3:13)
However, since Jesus ascended Himself, those who are in Him in faith are now with Him in heaven as soon as they are absent from the body.
Claudia, Jesus defined eternal life as knowing the Father and the Son, John 17:3. Therefore eternal death is NOT knowing the Father and the Son. "Knowing" here is not simply intellectual knowledge, but an intimate relationship.
NO SPIRIT dies in terms of becoming unconscious. If that were true, eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46) would have no meaning and Jesus' warning about it would be nonsense.
The consciousness of everyone continues forever. However eternal life as Jesus defined it will belong only to those who are born again of the Spirit in Him (John 3:3-8).
You can't just pick and choose the verses you want to support your particular theology. Bible must be allowed to explain and define Bible if you are serious about being a follower of Christ Jesus.
NO SPIRIT dies in terms of becoming unconscious. If that were true, eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46) would have no meaning and Jesus' warning about it would be nonsense.
The consciousness of everyone continues forever. However eternal life as Jesus defined it will belong only to those who are born again of the Spirit in Him (John 3:3-8).
You can't just pick and choose the verses you want to support your particular theology. Bible must be allowed to explain and define Bible if you are serious about being a follower of Christ Jesus.
Brother Bob
New Member
I will amen that Helen;
Also, Claudia_T the scripture says the "spirit" when a man dies goes back to God who give it. He not only breathed into man's nostrils and man became a living soul, God also give Him a spirit and the scripture tells us that spirit and soul are bonded so tight it takes the word of God to put them asunder.
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
It seems that only the word of God is so quick and so powerful and sharp that it can divide the spirit and the soul. I don’t know of anything else that can.
Also, Claudia_T the scripture says the "spirit" when a man dies goes back to God who give it. He not only breathed into man's nostrils and man became a living soul, God also give Him a spirit and the scripture tells us that spirit and soul are bonded so tight it takes the word of God to put them asunder.
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
It seems that only the word of God is so quick and so powerful and sharp that it can divide the spirit and the soul. I don’t know of anything else that can.
1. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body,Rom.4:24,25
2. Spiritual death is the separation of the spirit from God, John 5:24
3. Eternal death is the result of spiritual death, Acts 1:25
4. Both spiritual and eternal death were arrested by grace through faith through the institution of sacrifice. Heb.9:22 The Lord Jesus who "tasted death" for every man saved those in the Old Testament age who through obedience and sacrifice believed in Him, Rom.3:25
2. Spiritual death is the separation of the spirit from God, John 5:24
3. Eternal death is the result of spiritual death, Acts 1:25
4. Both spiritual and eternal death were arrested by grace through faith through the institution of sacrifice. Heb.9:22 The Lord Jesus who "tasted death" for every man saved those in the Old Testament age who through obedience and sacrifice believed in Him, Rom.3:25
Where we go when we die? Who cares if one dies in Christ?
Shilo:
"3. Eternal death is the result of spiritual death, Acts 1:25"
GE:
Improvement: Eternal death is spiritual death continued
"3. Eternal death is the result of spiritual death, Acts 1:25"
GE:
Improvement: Eternal death is spiritual death continued
There was a time in my life I wondered a lot about an eternal hell. But I have seen enough now of man and sin - outside as well as inside myself - no longer to wonder about it; in fact, I have begun thinking if eternal hell can be long enough . . .
This I know for sure though, because it is the Word of God, that His children may take solace in these words, Your life is hid in Christ in God. It's all I want to know about the here-after and not the least less, about this present life.
This I know for sure though, because it is the Word of God, that His children may take solace in these words, Your life is hid in Christ in God. It's all I want to know about the here-after and not the least less, about this present life.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
The soul is the seat of the will, intellect and mind.
I am going to Heaven when I die.
I don't hope so.
I don't think so.
I KNOW so.
OSAS because of :jesus: ...
I am going to Heaven when I die.
I don't hope so.
I don't think so.
I KNOW so.
OSAS because of :jesus: ...
Amen. Well said sister Sue. :thumbs:
It's refreshing to see a "Christisn" lady smiling and KNOWING where she is headed!
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
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We all need to have confidence in the fact that we are going to heaven but the question is WHEN. And if the Scriptures tell us when then it is important.For several reasons.
QUESTION:
If the Bible tells us plainly that at the second coming of Christ, Christ will call the dead out of their graves and they will rise up to be with Him and meet the Lord in the air, "and so we shall ever be with the Lord" and that we need to comfort one another with these words...
WHY if we are already in heaven right after we die? it does not make sense. Does Jesus send us to heaven when we die, then come back at the second coming, stick us back into the grave and then pull us back up out of it all of us together?
1 Thessalonians 4:
13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
QUESTION:
If the Bible tells us plainly that at the second coming of Christ, Christ will call the dead out of their graves and they will rise up to be with Him and meet the Lord in the air, "and so we shall ever be with the Lord" and that we need to comfort one another with these words...
WHY if we are already in heaven right after we die? it does not make sense. Does Jesus send us to heaven when we die, then come back at the second coming, stick us back into the grave and then pull us back up out of it all of us together?
1 Thessalonians 4:
13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
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The Bible clearly tells that we "put on" immortality later on 1Cor:15:54, we dont have NATURAL immortality.. Adam and Eve were barred from partking of the Tree of Life when they sinned
Gen:3:24: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Martin Luther didnt have good things to say about the false doctrine of natural immortality of the soul. He classed it with the "monstrous fables that form part of the Roman dunghill of decretals."--E. Petavel, The Problem of Immortality, page 255.
Commenting on the words of Solomon in Ecclesiastes, that the dead know not anything, Martin Luther says: "Another place proving that the dead have no . . . feeling. There is, saith he, no duty, no science, no knowledge, no wisdom there. Solomon judgeth that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there, accounting neither days nor years, but when they are awaked, they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."-- Martin Luther, Exposition of Solomon's Booke Called Ecclesiastes, page 152.
This makes it a little difficult to talk to the Virgin Mary, doesnt it?:
"So man lieth down, and riseth not, till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job. 14:12.
"If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will wait, till my change come." Job 14:14.
"If I wait, the grave is mine house; I have made my bed in the darkness." Job 17:13.
"His sons come to honor, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them." Job 14:21.
"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Ps. 146:4.
"For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything." Eccl. 9:5.
"The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." Ps. 115:17.
"For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:34.
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee." Ps. 6:5.
"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust; for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead." Isa. 26:19.
Gen:3:24: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Martin Luther didnt have good things to say about the false doctrine of natural immortality of the soul. He classed it with the "monstrous fables that form part of the Roman dunghill of decretals."--E. Petavel, The Problem of Immortality, page 255.
Commenting on the words of Solomon in Ecclesiastes, that the dead know not anything, Martin Luther says: "Another place proving that the dead have no . . . feeling. There is, saith he, no duty, no science, no knowledge, no wisdom there. Solomon judgeth that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there, accounting neither days nor years, but when they are awaked, they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."-- Martin Luther, Exposition of Solomon's Booke Called Ecclesiastes, page 152.
This makes it a little difficult to talk to the Virgin Mary, doesnt it?:
"So man lieth down, and riseth not, till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job. 14:12.
"If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will wait, till my change come." Job 14:14.
"If I wait, the grave is mine house; I have made my bed in the darkness." Job 17:13.
"His sons come to honor, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them." Job 14:21.
"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Ps. 146:4.
"For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything." Eccl. 9:5.
"The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." Ps. 115:17.
"For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:34.
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee." Ps. 6:5.
"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust; for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead." Isa. 26:19.
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tragic_pizza
New Member
No, your interpretation makes it so.donnA said:
The Bible says both that judgement is instantaneous and that people who have died "sleep." Thus both are correct, and any view that tries to discredit one or the other is incorrect.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
My soul will be in Heaven when I die.
When the Lord returns, my body will come up out of the grave and be in Heaven also.
To be absent from the body is to be with the Lord.
My soul will be absent from my body when I die, therefore I (my will, intellect, and mind = soul) will be with the Lord.
My body will rot in the grave until the Lord comes in a 'twinkling of an eye' and then my body will be perfect, just like His...
The saints of old will go first, then the rest of us in the grave (or urn, or ocean, or battlefield, or wherever), and last, the ones still living will ascend.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :saint:
When the Lord returns, my body will come up out of the grave and be in Heaven also.
To be absent from the body is to be with the Lord.
My soul will be absent from my body when I die, therefore I (my will, intellect, and mind = soul) will be with the Lord.
My body will rot in the grave until the Lord comes in a 'twinkling of an eye' and then my body will be perfect, just like His...
The saints of old will go first, then the rest of us in the grave (or urn, or ocean, or battlefield, or wherever), and last, the ones still living will ascend.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :saint: