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Deeds or Creeds
- Thread starter Rebel1
- Start date
I agree with Spurgeon.
False dichotomy. You can't have one without the other. Proper actions flow from proper thought.
Sir Beezer
New Member
I also tend to agree that the two are not mutually exclusive...despite the fact some are prone to taking extreme positions that make it appear such. If the chief end of man is to glorify God then perhaps the answer to your question is that both are equally important to God.
The question was, which is more important.
The question presents only two choices. I suggest that neither is "more important", which is why I said that it was a false dichotomy.
On top of that, it matters what one's creed is, and why one's deeds were done. The Pharisees had both deeds and creeds, yet Jesus called them sons of Satan.
These matters are complex.
True, they are complex.
The following is my perspective, which has changed over the years. Theology is probably my greatest interest, so of course doctrines and beliefs are very important to me. And yet I have come to realize that actions are more important. I believe that how we treat others -- people, animals, the creation -- is what's most important to God. I base that on the emphasis on love presented in the NT. We can be wrong in our doctrine, but if we love, we have fulfilled the greatest commandment.
If you are wrong in your doctrine you may wind up in hell. If God's love is greater than His holiness, then He will save all regardless of whether they trust in His Son or not.
If you have accepted Jesus as your savior, you will not wind up in hell for having wrong doctrine.
But you wrote, "We can be wrong in our doctrine" (post #8). Words mean things. You also wrote, "Theology is probably my greatest interest". If that is a true statement then you are doubly accountable for your words. If not, then theology is just a hobby; not to be taken seriously. As someone who claims to take theology seriously, certainly, you know that just accepting Jesus as your savior does not guarantee your salvation. There are many people who have recited the sinner's prayer and are no more saved than a fence post. True repentance from sin and genuine faith in Christ results in a change of mind and actions in the life of the believer. That is the point of James 1-2.
I do not write these things to shame you. I write them to admonish you to have a right view of God and His word. God wants us to believe right and act right. Right belief results in right actions and love is an action. To elevate one over the other is to display a serious misunderstanding of the word of God. James writes, "But prove yourself doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves" (Jas. 1:22). James is not saying that hearing is less than doing, he is saying do both.
Paul wrote to Timothy, "As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines," (1 Tim. 1:3). Later on in the chapter, he tells Timothy, "This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight, the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith" (1 Tim. 1:18-19). Lastly, Paul issued a dire warning that we see has already come true in our world, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, and will turn their ears away from the truth and will turn aside to myths" (2 Tim. 4:3).
Charles Spurgeon, The Common Salvation:
"You shall take a high churchman who is a truly spiritual man—and there are such people—and you shall set him down side by side with the most rigid member of the Society of Friends and when they begin to talk of Jesus, of the work of the Holy Spirit in the soul and the desire of their hearts after God, you will hardly know which is which! The nearer we come to Him, who is the salvation of God, the more plainly we see that among the children of God the basis of agreement is far wider than the ground of division."
"You shall take a high churchman who is a truly spiritual man—and there are such people—and you shall set him down side by side with the most rigid member of the Society of Friends and when they begin to talk of Jesus, of the work of the Holy Spirit in the soul and the desire of their hearts after God, you will hardly know which is which! The nearer we come to Him, who is the salvation of God, the more plainly we see that among the children of God the basis of agreement is far wider than the ground of division."
The above is theology. It's also an incomplete quote. It also seems to assume that one can imperfectly "obey" a command and yet that command be "fulfilled". It lastly makes the assumption that fulfilling commands is the essence of Christianity.
Doctrine matters.
That statement is filled with theology - bad theology. You see, you can't escape having to make theological-based decisions about your faith and actions. Your deeds are based on your creeds, whether you like it or not.
You can't say, "I just love Jesus" without first answering at least a dozen questions, starting with, "who is Jesus?"
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The scriptures teach that God Himself has good works ordained for us to walk in, don't see that for Creeds though!
Good point.
Do you ever really read anything I write?
Did you not understand what I wrote? I am not an antinomian.
Obviously you have not grasped my point or position.
Your position is that deeds are more important than creeds. I think that's a direct quote.