Definitions of "know" revisited

[webdog]

I can't speak for Isaiah web, but how about the way I look at it? My son is about your age. He lives his life like a reprobate.

So do we at times. My son, at 2, likes to pray before he eats. Does the reprobate truly desire to thank God for food?

You see, I believe that God can and does violate a person's "free will" to do that. He removes the heart of stone and gives them a heart of flesh.

I always see that phrase used for individuals, but never see it in Scripture in regards to individuals, but a nation. If God "violates" free will, that person cannot be held responsible for not coming to Him. You can't have it both ways.

If it is not God's will, (perfect will) then my son will not be saved. It is not as if my son is knocking down the door to God, so it is his fault. Does this make sense web?

That flies in the face of 2 Peter 3:9. It is NEVER God's will (decretive, what you call perfect will) for anyone to not be saved.

What about your little boy web? When you pray, do you pray expecting God to violate his free will? How can you honestly pray for God to save him, believing that God can not violate his will?

Do you? I pray that God continues to do in my son's life what He did in mine, never give up on me, and also for me to raise him in the way necessary for him to accept Christ. I believe Scripture when Jesus says "I will draw ALL men to Me".

Do you think as humans (and believers at that) we can love our own children more than God? Can we do a better job at displaying one of His perfect attributes than a God who IS love? I recall we are to love with a perfect love as our God in Heaven.

 

[reformedbeliever]

So do we at times. My son, at 2, likes to pray before he eats. Does the reprobate truly desire to thank God for food?

I always see that phrase used for individuals, but never see it in Scripture in regards to individuals, but a nation. If God "violates" free will, that person cannot be held responsible for not coming to Him. You can't have it both ways.

That flies in the face of 2 Peter 3:9. It is NEVER God's will (decretive, what you call perfect will) for anyone to not be saved.
Do you? I pray that God continues to do in my son's life what He did in mine, never give up on me, and also for me to raise him in the way necessary for him to accept Christ. I believe Scripture when Jesus says "I will draw ALL men to Me".

Do you think as humans (and believers at that) we can love our own children more than God? Can we do a better job at displaying one of His perfect attributes than a God who IS love? I recall we are to love with a perfect love as our God in Heaven.

I won't hijack this thread with all the same old arguments..... such as 2 Peter 3:9 being written to the elect. God is not willing that any of "who" would be lost? Who are the "you?" The elect. Allan is a non Calvinist and he understands this in the context which it was written web.... why don't you?
We have been over this too many times.

 

[reformedbeliever]

But then we could hijack this thread and argue this a while. I have a few more posts to go to get to 2000.

 

[webdog]

I won't hijack this thread with all the same old arguments..... such as 2 Peter 3:9 being written to the elect. God is not willing that any of "who" would be lost? Who are the "you?" The elect. Allan is a non Calvinist and he understands this in the context which it was written web.... why don't you?
We have been over this too many times.

Allan's not the authority on 2 Peter 3:9.
If I recall, 2 Peter is written to believers who were jewish (the elect). The "who" is referred to as ANY. The "usward" is in reference to the jews, or who Peter was one of.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Allan's not the authority on 2 Peter 3:9.
If I recall, 2 Peter is written to believers who were jewish (the elect). The "who" is referred to as ANY. The "usward" is in reference to the jews, or who Peter was one of.

The first letter was written to the elect. The elect was not of a national election, but an individual election. Look at the second letter web. Who was it written to?

 

[reformedbeliever]

If we play this question and answer game long enough I'll be at 2000 posts. :laugh:

 

[webdog]

The first letter was written to the elect. The elect was not of a national election, but an individual election. Look at the second letter web. Who was it written to?

Who was Peter the apostle to?

 

[webdog]

If we play this question and answer game long enough I'll be at 2000 posts. :laugh:

I'm doing my part in helping you reach your goal

 

[reformedbeliever]

Thank you brother. Now, who was the second letter written to?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Who was Peter the apostle to?

The Lord. He was sent by the Lord. That is what apostle means.... one who is sent.

 

[webdog]

Thank you brother. Now, who was the second letter written to?

to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

That doesn't mean they weren't (from 1 Peter)...

to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

 

[reformedbeliever]

to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

That doesn't mean they weren't (from 1 Peter)...

to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Ok bro, has or had the nation of Isreal obtained like precious faith....?

 

[webdog]

Ok bro, has or had the nation of Isreal obtained like precious faith....?

The "strangers scattered" were believing jews. That is why God is patient towards "usward" (jews) and not willing that any (jews) perish. Why would God need to be patient about who He had already chosen for salvation? That makes no sense. Patience is an attribute of waiting. Was He waiting for Himself...or is that an attributte of His permissive will in allowing the free agency of man? I choose #2.

 

[reformedbeliever]

The "strangers scattered" were believing jews. That is why God is patient towards "usward" (jews) and not willing that any (jews) perish. Why would God need to be patient about who He had already chosen for salvation? That makes no sense. Patience is an attribute of waiting. Was He waiting for Himself...or is that an attributte of His permissive will in allowing the free agency of man? I choose #2.

Well web, i'm one of the elect... and I was not born yet. He had to wait till I was born. You see....... you are really reaching aren't you web? If God was not willing that any of the jews perish... then they wouldn't would they? Were all the jews born at that time? Were more jews going to be born. Are more going to be born still today?

 

[webdog]

Well web, i'm one of the elect... and I was not born yet. He had to wait till I was born. You see....... you are really reaching aren't you web?

With that definition...who's reaching? :laugh:

You're telling me God "has to wait" for anything

So explain exactly how His patience toward "usward" means He is waiting for them to be born. That sounds kind of open theistic to me...

Also, if God has done the choosing unto salvation apart from faith, "not willing that any should perish" makes no sense whatsoever, as that cannot be a possibility.

 

[reformedbeliever]

With that definition...who's reaching? :laugh:

You're telling me God "has to wait" for anything

So explain exactly how His patience toward "usward" means He is waiting for them to be born. That sounds kind of open theistic to me...

Also, if God has done the choosing unto salvation apart from faith, "not willing that any should perish" makes no sense whatsoever, as that cannot be a possibility.

God is outside time web, but He still operates within time also.

 

[reformedbeliever]

With that definition...who's reaching? :laugh:

You're telling me God "has to wait" for anything

So explain exactly how His patience toward "usward" means He is waiting for them to be born. That sounds kind of open theistic to me...

Also, if God has done the choosing unto salvation apart from faith, "not willing that any should perish" makes no sense whatsoever, as that cannot be a possibility.

Those that God has chosen will have faith web. I don't see the problem. He chose us before the foundation of the world. He has caused us to be born again. Do you need the scripture references? No problem.
Ephesians 1: 4. just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5. He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6. to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

1 Peter 1:3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4. to {obtain} an inheritance {which is} imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5. who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[reformedbeliever]

to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

That doesn't mean they weren't (from 1 Peter)...

to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Web says Peter was writing to the Jews only. What do you think?

 

[Amy.G]

Web says Peter was writing to the Jews only. What do you think?

I think Peter was writing to the "elect", the church of Jesus Christ, composed of Jews and Gentiles, warning them to be prepared for the horrible persecution by the Emperor Nero.

 

[reformedbeliever]

I think Peter was writing to the "elect", the church of Jesus Christ, composed of Jews and Gentiles, warning them to be prepared for the horrible persecution by the Emperor Nero.

:thumbs:..............................................