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Depression, Music and The Charismatic Movement

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Mark Osgatharp, Sep 22, 2005.

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  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Anyone who has experienced severe depression knows that one of the phenomena that accompanies it is wild mood swings - what the quacks call "manic/depressive." One moment you feel like you can conquer the world and the next you feel like you could die.

    Music plays a large part in setting moods, either heightening a mania (with bright and happy or grandiose music) or (with dark or sad music) deepening the depression.

    A good example of this in the Bible is when David played for Saul to relieve the deep depression sent on him by the evil spirit from the Lord.

    I said all that to say this: my theory is that a great part of the appeal of the Charismatic movement is that it plays on the mania side of manic depression. Here is how.

    Those who are deeply depressed - or to use the Bible terminology, convicted - often seek religion as an answer. They sometimes end up in a charismatic worship service and, as a result of the loud music, lively movements, and cordial atmosphere of the people, experience a mania. Since all of this is played up as a move of the Holy Spirit, they become convinced that their mania was a relief sent by the Holy Spirit.

    On top of that, when these same folks go into a sober worship service where the word of God is preached in a forthright way, it can intensify their depression - conviction - and, being unwilling to repent of their wickednesses - they write the sober worship service off as being dead, judgemental, blah, blah, blah and opt for the charismatic worship that gives them their weekly high and emotional escape from their depression - just as Saul did with David.

    That, my friends, is in my opinion why so many are fleeing the Baptist churches for the charismatic churches and so many Baptist churches are turning charismatic.

    The sad part is, this religious fix for conviction doesn't really do any ultimate good at all. All it does is gives a temporary relief from their pain, after which they dive right back into their lies, whoredoms, divorces, wrath, perversions, worldliness, covetousness, gossips, disobedience, rebellions, pride, etc.

    The result is, you have swarms of people playing religion while, in reality, they are as wicked as gout.

    And, of course, the charismatic movement isn't the only movement that plays on this phenomea, it is just so popular because of the extremity of the mania one can experience in a crowd of hand waving fanatics with loud lively music.

    The catholic traditions offer the same experience with pomp and an outward show of glory. And, of course, most people leave off the religion altogether and opt for the beer dives, whoredom, music (primarily rock and country) concerts, or whatever else it is that gives them that escape from the reality that depresses them when they stop and stare it right in the face.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #1 Mark Osgatharp, Sep 22, 2005
  2. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    Are you denying that bipolar disorder is real?
     
    #2 JGrubbs, Sep 22, 2005
  3. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Are you suggesting that the only people who truly enjoy joyous, uplifting, praising God music are manic?
     
    #3 TexasSky, Sep 22, 2005
  4. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    JGrubbs,

    Of course I think it's real. It's reality is the basis of this whole argument.

    Look at Saul - if he wasn't "bipolar" then no one ever was! When the Lord sent an evil spirit on him he had fits of depression. When David played sweet music for him he had relief.

    Yeah, it's real.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #4 Mark Osgatharp, Sep 22, 2005
  5. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    So your saying that if someone suffers from bipolar disorder that it is because of evil spirits?
     
    #5 JGrubbs, Sep 22, 2005
  6. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Okay,

    Show me scripture to support the Lord sending evil spirits upon David.
     
    #6 TexasSky, Sep 22, 2005
  7. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    Actually Texas, that is what the Bible says.....when David played for Saul it relieved Saul from them.
     
    #7 bapmom, Sep 22, 2005
  8. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    Mark,

    I think in part you could have a point, but I do also think that you paint with too broad of a brush. Not all mental ailments or depression comes from oppression from a devil. And you sort of are giving the impression that that is what you are saying.
     
    #8 bapmom, Sep 22, 2005
  9. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    When we understood that disease and sickness was caused by bacteria, viruses, molds, fungus, prions, genetic disorders and immune disorders and can be impacted by drugs, gene therapy, etc did that make it false that God causes and heals disease? I would say no. God is sovereign over the natural and the supernatural.

    When we now understand that neurological disorders are often caused by chemical imbalances in the brain that can be impacted by drugs, did that make it false that there is a spiritual problem with those same individuals that God is sovereign over and that we should pray about? No. God is sovereign over the natural and the supernatural.

    The natural is simply that which we understand and the supernatural is simply that which we don't.
     
    #9 Gold Dragon, Sep 22, 2005
  10. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    Good point, Gold Dragon.

    Ive actually often wondered what demon oppression would look like on an EKG (term?) In tests would it show up as a chemical misfiring in the brain?

    I work with alot of mentally handicapped people, and because Im in that field, I also see alot of mental illness. Sometimes I've wondered.
     
    #10 bapmom, Sep 22, 2005
  11. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    JGrubbs,

    To start with, I didn't say "evil spirits" as if we were talking about demons. I said "evil spirit" - as in a bad mood. The Bible plainly says that the evil spirit Saul experienced was sent from the Lord.

    Of course, everything we experience is sent from the Lord. Even our breath is from God. "In him we live and move and have our very being" as Paul said.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #11 Mark Osgatharp, Sep 22, 2005
  12. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    I agree, I do believe that Mark makes a good point about the mental effects of music on the brain, I believe certain music does have a calming effect. But like you said bapmom, you can paint with too broad of a brush, and say that all mental illnesses are from "evil spirits". My wife has bipolar disorder, it is not an evil spirit, it is a medical disorder that she takes daily supplements for as part of her treatment, God could choose to heal her at anytime, but if He doesn't, we have the peace knowing that he has given us the resources we need to treat her and help her stay stable. The ignorant blanket statements by those like Mark do much harm within the church on the issue of mental health.
     
    #12 JGrubbs, Sep 22, 2005
  13. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Which means that if you are suffering a troubled spirit or a troubled body, it is all from the hand of God.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #13 Mark Osgatharp, Sep 22, 2005
  14. Bible Believing Bill

    Bible Believing Bill <img src =/bbb.jpg>

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    Mark,

    Manic / Depressive is now called Bipolar Disorder a very real mental illness, but one that should not be cofused with Major Depression.

    A person suffering from Biploar Disorder does experience periods of both depressiona and of mania, but a person suffering from Major Depression does not suffer from mania.

    It is possible and very common to suffer Major Depression. Be very careful about painting too broad of a stoke when describing mental illnesses. It is often very difficult to get a proper diagnosis of many mental illnesses due to the fact that the symptoms can be very similar. You may very well have experienced Bipolar Disorder, but that does not mean all depressed individuals have the same experience.

    Bill
     
    #14 Bible Believing Bill, Sep 22, 2005
  15. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    EKGs (Electrocardiogram) are for the heart. [​IMG]

    You are probably referring to EEGs (Electroencephalogram) which measure brain activity.

    Both measure electric potential through diodes on the skin.
     
    #15 Gold Dragon, Sep 22, 2005
  16. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Which means that if you are suffering a troubled spirit or a troubled body, it is all from the hand of God.

    Mark Osgatharp     </font>[/QUOTE]Correct. But also that a troubled body and a troubled spirit are not necessarily disconnected. And that it isn't wrong to pray for either or to medically treat either.
     
    #16 Gold Dragon, Sep 22, 2005
  17. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    This thread is not a continuation of the debate about depression. It is a discussion about the realtionship of depression/mania to charismatic worship. Please keep it on topic and if you want to banter about the rest of it go back to the other thread.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #17 Mark Osgatharp, Sep 22, 2005
  18. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    I agree with you that much of the music used in many charismatic circles is almost hypnotic in it's effect on those present. But, you can't make a ignorant statement that equates manic/depressive bipolar disorder with quackery in your OP of the thread and not expect people to respond to it.
     
    #18 JGrubbs, Sep 22, 2005
  19. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit New Member

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    Mark, perhaps a "blended" or balanced approach to music would be best?

    I'm not sure "charismatic" is the right way to classify music. Charismatic means so much more than that. If a Baptist church has some modern music, it doesn't mean that church is "going Pentecostal!"
     
    #19 USN2Pulpit, Sep 22, 2005
  20. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    And we need two threads on depression, by the same poster?
     
    #20 donnA, Sep 22, 2005
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