Did God Create Evil and Sin for His Glory?

[BobRyan]

This is contradiction itself tragic. If man is free to choose then God isn't Sovereign in that choice is He?

Text please.

Oh! you have NO TEXT using that as a definition for sovereign????

How surprising.

So you "just made it up then"???

How instructive.

By "contrast" we have "actual scripture" as in Acts 5 --
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."


In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
As you noted the old BB references no longer work - but I leave the links in anyway for authenticity.

JohnP
Yes? I'm sure I have never used the word 'reverence'. How can we check if it ain't there? A link to nowhere is not proof.

So you WOULD like to forget your own quotes?!!

Wise choice.

You did say that you thought you worded it kinda funny....

I thought you did too.

This must be the new JohnP.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

JohnP stated
Quote:
You are a universalist at heart old man. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44.
You claim all men are saved.

Actually as it turns out I am not the author of John 12:32 "I will draw ALL MANKIND unto Me" -- God is.

And your John 6 reference when combined with John 12 (same author same book same topic same word same context) we SEE that Calvinism really "needed" to take John 6 "in the total and absolute abscence" of John 12 eh?

But I could not oblige them -- Sorry about that.

As for the sequence being that God first draws and then it is those drawn "the ALL mankid of John 12: that will be raised up if they in fact choose to ACT on the enabling of that drawing -- (the choice that is DISABLED in Depravity is ENABLED in the drawing of God -- even by Calvinist standards)

In Christ,

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Adam was NOT created evil because he was created in the image of God (as we all are) and God is not now, has never been, and never will be - evil.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Ladies and gentlemen, a banner day - IAB and I agree on something.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

That's twice today on two different threads!

 

[johnp.]

Adam was NOT created evil because he was created in the image of God (as we all are) and God is not now, has never been, and never will be - evil.

I find I agree with this as well.

john.

 

[beloved57]

I find I agree with this as well.

john.

David was a man after Gods own heart and he was created evil !

ps 51

5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

He also had the image and likeness of God !

 

[beloved57]

Actually as it turns out I am not the author of John 12:32 "I will draw ALL MANKIND unto Me" -- God is.

And your John 6 reference when combined with John 12 (same author same book same topic same word same context) we SEE that Calvinism really "needed" to take John 6 "in the total and absolute abscence" of John 12 eh?

But I could not oblige them -- Sorry about that.

As for the sequence being that God first draws and then it is those drawn "the ALL mankid of John 12: that will be raised up if they in fact choose to ACT on the enabling of that drawing -- (the choice that is DISABLED in Depravity is ENABLED in the drawing of God -- even by Calvinist standards)

In Christ,

Actually as it turns out I am not the author of John 12:32 "I will draw ALL MANKIND unto Me" -- God is.

It is apparent you do not understand what christ means here !

 

[Amy.G]

It is apparent you do not understand what christ means here !

"all men" means all men. Any other interpretation is only in your own imagination.

 

[tragic_pizza]

David was a man after Gods own heart and he was created evil !

ps 51

5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

He also had the image and likeness of God !

A text without a context is a pretext to a prooftext.

 

[johnp.]

Hello Bob me ole mate how's everything?

Text please.

DA 4:35 All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: "What have you done?"

That is a warning to you Bob, that is from the King of Babylon, it seems he knows more than you.

Actually as it turns out I am not the author of John 12:32 "I will draw ALL MANKIND unto Me" -- God is.

Thanks for telling me man I nearly made a dreadful mistake.

And your John 6...

...we SEE that Calvinism really "needed" to take John 6 "in the total and absolute abscence" of John 12 eh?

You see is a contradiction. You have so much weight attached to a word that is not there in John 12. It does not say 'all men' will be drawn but 'all'. You know that. Whereas, the 'no man' stands and the drawn are glorified. John 6:44.
I don't see how the cross drew Balaam. The citizens of Sodom were not drawn when Jesus was lifted up were they?

But I could not oblige them -- Sorry about that.

I see no reason to think you have a win.

So you WOULD like to forget your own quotes?!!

Depends on which ones you mean don't it?

Wise choice.

Wow! You made me mind up for me, thanks man. Does that mean you will stop the cut'n'paste and start a meaningful conversation or what. Probably 'or what' a?

You did say that you thought you worded it kinda funny....

I don't know if I think 'reverence' is a kinda funny word or not, as I said, it is not a word I use but you can show me can't you? Why don't you show me and then I'll know for sure won't I?

This must be the new JohnP.

New improved johnp if you don't mind.

In Christ,

A post full of sarcasm and petty sniping shouldn't be rounded off by 'In Christ' really. It is a contradiction Bob.

john.

 

[johnp.]

David was a man after Gods own heart and he was created evil !

I know beloved.

He also had the image and likeness of God !

Indeed he did. Being transformed into His likeness just as we are. The evil bit will be shed because we will be able to love the Lord our God with all of our being. Evil has no place in love.

It is apparent you do not understand what Christ means here ! (To Bob)

You don't read his posts do you?

john.

 

[johnp.]

Hello AmyG.

"all men" means all men. Any other interpretation is only in your own imagination.

John 12:32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

The actual script: I if up (5686) from earth draw (5692) all unto me

The 'all' being used can mean all of any group. Any word can be inserted after 'all'. You have no authority to tell anyone that it is just their imagination because you are making an assumption here.

In John 6:44 Jesus tells us that, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

If Jesus meant that all mankind will be draw then all men are saved because the drawing comes with the promise of being raised up.

John 6:44 : man can (5736) come (5629) to me except Father which sent (5660) me draw (5661) him and I raise him up (5692) last day

john.

 

[Amy.G]

Hello AmyG.



John 12:32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

The actual script: I if up (5686) from earth draw (5692) all unto me

The 'all' being used can mean all of any group. Any word can be inserted after 'all'. You have no authority to tell anyone that it is just their imagination because you are making an assumption here.

In John 6:44 Jesus tells us that, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

If Jesus meant that all mankind will be draw then all men are saved because the drawing comes with the promise of being raised up.

John 6:44 : man can (5736) come (5629) to me except Father which sent (5660) me draw (5661) him and I raise him up (5692) last day

john.

I have as much authority as you to question someone's interpretation of scripture. The word of God says;
THAT WAS THE TRUE LIGHT WHICH GIVES LIGHT TO EVERY MAN COMING INTO THE WORLD. (John 1:9)

NNE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS THE FATHER WHO SENT ME DRAWS HIM; AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY. (John 6:44)

Who are the saved in this verse? The ones that COME to Him.

All men are drawn, but not all men come.

 

[beloved57]

I have as much authority as you to question someone's interpretation of scripture. The word of God says;
THAT WAS THE TRUE LIGHT WHICH GIVES LIGHT TO EVERY MAN COMING INTO THE WORLD. (John 1:9)

NNE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS THE FATHER WHO SENT ME DRAWS HIM; AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY. (John 6:44)

Who are the saved in this verse? The ones that COME to Him.

All men are drawn, but not all men come.

You are absolutely blind to spirtual truth, you can quote all the scripture you want, you do not understand them, thats the whole issue, [Edited personal attack. Debate the issues of the text of Scripture and/or interpretation etc. However, the BB Posting Rules forbid you from making personal attacks against the person holding a different view or questioning the salvation of a fellow BB poster.].

 

[tragic_pizza]

I have as much authority as you to question someone's interpretation of scripture. The word of God says;
THAT WAS THE TRUE LIGHT WHICH GIVES LIGHT TO EVERY MAN COMING INTO THE WORLD. (John 1:9)

NNE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS THE FATHER WHO SENT ME DRAWS HIM; AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY. (John 6:44)

Who are the saved in this verse? The ones that COME to Him.

All men are drawn, but not all men come.

That is the definition of Calvinism. I have no idea what theology beloved is trying to call Calvinism, but it isn't.

 

[beloved57]

I know beloved.



Indeed he did. Being transformed into His likeness just as we are. The evil bit will be shed because we will be able to love the Lord our God with all of our being. Evil has no place in love.



You don't read his posts do you?

john.

IMO bob is a false teacher...

 

[Amy.G]

You are absolutely blind to spirtual truth, you can quote all the scripture you want, you do not understand them, thats the whole issue, [Edited out quoted personal attack.]

I certainly have and you don't have the right to question it just because I disagree with you. It is you that doesn't have scripture to back up your twisted doctrine.

 

[johnp.]

Hello AmyG.

I have as much authority as you to question someone's interpretation of scripture.

The scriptures you have but John 12:32 does not says 'all mankind' it say 'all'. You added to scripture.

THAT WAS THE TRUE LIGHT WHICH GIVES LIGHT TO EVERY MAN COMING INTO THE WORLD. (John 1:9)

Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Php 4:5.

One does not need to shout the gospel at another Christian.

How did He give light to those who sin apart from the law? Rom 2:12. The conscience cannot save.

Who are the saved in this verse? The ones that COME to Him.

NNE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS THE FATHER WHO SENT ME DRAWS HIM; AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY. (John 6:44)

And why do they come to Him?

All men are drawn, but not all men come.

It says that those who are drawn are raised why the twist? John 6:44.

john.