Joe said:
I didn't know I could and should start another thread if I "want to know about them"
I am also a member of this Baptist Board. In fact, I am Baptist
The Apostles Creed is directly related to the OP in that
it shows millions of people from various denominations cite this prayer daily which was my intention when posting it.
1) Maybe over a billion may recite the Apostles Creed, but millions of the Evangelical churches may not do that. Thousands of churches that I know as faithful to the NT teachings do not recite it.
2) This requires a lot of argument and debate about itself and that's why you better start a new thread about this Creed as this is not the thread about the Creed, and I didn't want to hijack the thread to another issue.
3) Creed itself can be very much controversial and therefore it cannot be the soulrce of ultimate truth.
Let me shortly point out the problesm with it.
According to your statement which I believe is quite a classical Creeds without modification ( Many people found the problems with it, and therefore they also modified it as the Creed is not unchangeable truth, different from Bible)
1. I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
This is a typical half truth :
God never made anything without thru Jesus Christ. Read Jn 1:3, Col 1:16, Heb 1:2,
Read Ephesians 3:
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in
God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
What the Creeds portrays is that God created all things without Jesus, and Jesus was sleeping in the Bosom of His Father. I recited this creed in my childhood till I grew up, but I didn't know Jesus was the Creator for long time.
2.I beleive in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord;
I hope you know the difference between his only Son and His only begotten Son. If anyone had 2 sons, and one son died of the traffic accident, the surviving son is the only son.
The only begotten son is the only son from the beginning. There may be an argument about monogenes, but the i ntention of the Bible using the term, I believe, is such unique.
3. who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
This is the verse which many people misunderstand.
Jesus was not conceived but was born by the Holy Spirit.
The word used in Mt 1:20 is not Sulambanow, but Gennao which is used for beget, begot, begotten which means born.
In other words, Jesus was not conceived by the reaction of fertilization between the ovum of Mary and the Sperm of the Holy Spirit.
But He was born already as a perfect HUman Embryo in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit. He was enfleshed by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was already born ( gennao) by Holy Spirit( Mt 1:20) before He was born out of Mary ( Mt 1:25)
4. born of the Virgin Mary,
Some countries use the special language for Virgin to indicate the lifetime Virgin, and Catholics understand this virgin as lifetime Virgin.
This phrase is also short of the whole Truth as a Creed, because it gives the impression that Jesus didn't exist before or sleeping in the bosom of Father, then he was born by a woman, exalting the woman, Mary.
If it can be perfect, came out of Mary ( Gal 4:4) who was created by Himself.
5. suffered under Pontius Pilate,
Pilate was the one who tried to release Jesus.
Why does it have to mention a human name here? The Lamb of God was supposed to suffer the pain and death by the Priest or High Priest.
Pilate wanted to release Him, he tried to release Him even if he may have to beat Him.
6
. was crucified, dead, and buried;
No Problem here.But it is lacking the crucial Truth that He bore our sins, and was crucified on our behalf so that our sins were forgiven already at the Cross.
7 he descended into hell;
This is not supported any where even if it may have meant 1 Pet 3:19
Jesus went to Paradise along with the Robber.
Many are confused among Gehenna ( Hell), Hades ( Sheol), Pulake( Prison: 1 Pet 3:19), Tartarowsas ( 2 Pet 2:4- dark prison), and this portion of truth need a lot of discussion. One thing very clear is that no one can safely state that Jesus went to the hell without controversy.
Also, the timing can be a specualtion, either while in the tomb or the time after the resurrection.
8. on the third day he rose again;
This can be a problem if it meant the third day after the 2 nights which underlies Good Friday, which contradicts what Jesus said about 3 days and 3 nights. Otherwise, it is OK.
9.
he ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost;
No Problem
1
0. the holy catholic Church;
I don't believe the Holy Catholic church.
We can find nowhere in the Bible that the saints believed in the church. Among 7 churches in Revelation, all 6 couldnt escape the rebuke by Jesus except Philadlphia. Do we have to believe in Laodicean church which represents Today's churches? NOPE !
11. the communion of saints;
Remember that the Catholic meant the Saints by the dead believers.
They believe the prayer to the Dead, pray thru the dead, blessings thru the dead, etc. which is often found in the paganism.
I REJECT this.
12. the forgiveness of sins;
Catholics believe that they have to ask God to forgive their daily sins, then God WILL forgive their sins, because they don't believe all the sins of theirs were already forgiven. So, the right sentence should have been : I believe that all the sins were already forgiven at the Cross.
This statement is quite tricky
13. the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting. Amen.
Can be OK unless one believe the Body of the Resurrection is the same as the current one on this earth, as we will have another body.
Our churches of so-called Plymouth Brethren do not recite this Apostles Creeds as we believe that the Bible is enough, and we find nowhere the Apostles left a creed for the believers to memorize.
This is why I mentioned that the Creeds cannot be the basis for the Biblical discussion. Only Bible is needed which tells the truth enough.
