Did Jesus go to Hell

[Brother Bob]

Just that there are other scriptures showing the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. I forgot one. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Do you not believe in the Trinity, or am I misunderstanding you???

 

[NoShame]

Just that there are other scriptures showing the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. I forgot one. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Do you not believe in the Trinity, or am I misunderstanding you???

No - you're not misunderstanding me... but what does that have to do with 1 John 5:7?

The text reads (as you posted):

οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες
[because] [three] [there are] [who] [bear witness]

And no - I don't believe that Scripture supports a "trinity", as in three co-equal persons of a Godhead. But, that is probably best left for another thread.

Like I said, I'm merely pointing out that the early MSS, or the Vulgate, do not support 1 John 5:7 reading as such, and I'm not sure if many are aware of that fact.

Glen

 

[Brother Bob]

Like I said, I'm merely pointing out that the early MSS, or the Vulgate, do not support 1 John 5:7 reading as such, and I'm not sure if many are aware of that fact.

Glen

Probably not.

At least we agree on the Spirit preaching to them in prison in Noah's day.

 

[NoShame]

Probably not.

At least we agree on the Spirit preaching to them in prison in Noah's day.

:thumbs:

Glen

 

[Brother Bob]

The book of John has been around since the second century. Are you saying it was not accepted unto the fifteenth century or parts of it or what? It has been disputed and questioned since the 2nd century, I think.

 

[NoShame]

The book of John has been around since the second century. Are you saying it was not accepted unto the fifteenth century or parts of it or what? It has been disputed and questioned since the 2nd century, I think.

I meant to type "5th" not "15th"... I'll go back and edit that post. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll also dig through my notes and see what I have on a closer time frame.

Glen

 

[Brother Bob]

oops... I meant to type "5th" not "15th"... I'll go back and edit that post. Thanks for pointing that out.

Jhn 14:9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

Vulgate: John 14:9
dicit ei Iesus tanto tempore vobiscum sum et non cognovistis me Philippe qui vidit me vidit et Patrem quomodo tu dicis ostende nobis Patrem
??? I don't know what its saying.

 

[NoShame]

Jhn 14:9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

Vulgate: John 14:9
dicit ei Iesus tanto tempore vobiscum sum et non cognovistis me Philippe qui vidit me vidit et Patrem quomodo tu dicis ostende nobis Patrem
??? I don't know what its saying.

Hi BB,

Are you posting this passage as a defense for the trinity? I only see two in that passage... God the Father, and Jesus, God the Son.

Maybe I misundestand why you're posting this passage?

Glen

 

[Brother Bob]

Hi BB,

Are you posting this passage as a defense for the trinity? I only see two in that passage... God the Father, and Jesus, God the Son.

Maybe I misundestand why you're posting this passage?

Glen

Its a start.....

If the Father and Son are as one, it not a far stretch to include the Holy Ghost is it?

You are my first who does not believe in the Trinity after 68 years on this earth and 35 years preaching.... This is new to me and I have to do some researh on the matter. This scripture John 14:9 helps to prove my belief in the Trinity.

 

[NoShame]

Its a start.....

If the Father and Son are as one, it not a far stretch to include the Holy Ghost is it?

Well... this could get messy. Why don't I start another thread on the "trinity" so we don't hijack this thread? I'll start the thread later this afternoon using your quote above... ok?

Glen

 

[Brother Bob]

Ok..........

 

[DHK]

Well... this could get messy. Why don't I start another thread on the "trinity" so we don't hijack this thread? I'll start the thread later this afternoon using your quote above... ok?

Glen

Good idea. This discussion on the trinity, the Johannine comma, and ancient manuscript evidence has no business in this thread if even in this forum. Manuscript evidence should be taken to the versions forum, where there is a ton of information on that particular topic. Please get back to the topic at hand:

Did Jesus go to Hell

 

[Brother Bob]

Seems to me that is exactly what we had decided to do before your admonishment. Thank you,

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Seems to me that is exactly what we had decided to do before your admonishment. Thank you,

BBob,

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The Bible clearly says that Jesus went down into Hell after his death and proclaimed his victory over death to those disobedient spirits that had been there since the time of Noah.

This discussion ended long ago. Not your previous post, nor any post from #119 onward has even come close to this discussion which has been derailed. I suggest we get back to it before the thread gets closed.

 

[Brother Bob]

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The Bible clearly says that Jesus went down into Hell after his death and proclaimed his victory over death to those disobedient spirits that had been there since the time of Noah.

We said ok.
Anyway, You do not have the correct understanding of 1Peter 3:19. It says by the "same" Spirit that he went and preached to those in prison in Noah's day. No where does it say anything close to Him "proclaiming His victory".

 

[DHK]

We said ok.
Anyway, You do not have the correct understanding of 1Peter 3:19. It says by the "same" Spirit that he went and preached to those in prison in Noah's day. No where does it say anything close to Him "proclaiming His victory".

"by the same spirit is a somewhat irrelevant clause"

1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The verse indicates that Christ is the subject. It is Christ who is being spoken about. It is Christ that died, was put to death, was raised, and it was he that went and preached or proclaimed (his victory) to the spirits in prison.
He did it "by the Spirit," a prepositional phrase which gives us the means how he went down into that prison (Hell) and preached to those spirits. It doesn't say that the Spirit specifically went down. It says Christ did. Christ is the subject here, not the Spirit. "By the Spirit" is simply a prepositional phrase giving us the means of how he went down to the prison (hell).

 

[Brother Bob]

It don't say either one of them "went down". You keep adding your own take on it.
If you take it not to be by the Spirit. It says that Christ was quickened and also went and preached unto the Spirits in prison. The way you see the scripture, Christ went after His resurrection and preached to them in prison.
It does not say Christ went down but says by the same Spirit that raised Him, also went and preached to them in prison in the days of Noah.

1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

nothing is irrelevant in the scripture, that is why "every" word is so important to get the correct meaning.

DHK; by the same spirit is a somewhat irrelevant clause

 

[DHK]

nothing is irrelevant in the scripture, that is why "every" word is so important to get the correct meaning.

I knew you would say that as soon as I posted it. But you are not reading correctly. The prepostional phrase is irrelevant to the subject agreeing with the verb which is also the subject of verse 19. Prepositional phrases are not subjects. They are grammatical irrelevant to the subject of the statement. I was speaking of grammar Bob. I would have hoped that you would have realized that and not have slandered me with saying that I believe that the Bible is irrelevant.

 

[DHK]

It don't say either one of them "went down". You keep adding your own take on it.
If you take it not to be by the Spirit. It says that Christ was quickened and also went and preached unto the Spirits in prison. The way you see the scripture, Christ went after His resurrection and preached to them in prison.
It does not say Christ went down but says by the same Spirit that raised Him, also went and preached to them in prison in the days of Noah.

Methinks you need a lesson in grammar.

 

[Brother Bob]

I knew you would say that as soon as I posted it. But you are not reading correctly. The prepostional phrase is irrelevant to the subject agreeing with the verb which is also the subject of verse 19. Prepositional phrases are not subjects. They are grammatical irrelevant to the subject of the statement. I was speaking of grammar Bob. I would have hoped that you would have realized that and not have slandered me with saying that I believe that the Bible is irrelevant.__________________
DHK

If you knew you shouldn't have posted it. I can't read your mind. I am not attacking you or slandering you. We are just disagreeing on the scripture. I don't take it as slander against me and you shouldn't take it as slander against you.
It is a difficult scripture and I feel that "phrase" has a lot to do with the meaning of the scripture, apparently you do not. I do have scripture where the spirit went and preached to them in prison back before the cross and you have nothing that "Christ went down" and proclaimed victory to those in hell. I am sure those in hell know they lost the opportunity not to go there. The rich man did anyway. He advocated a much better doctrine of repentance than many, I have heard on here.

BBob,